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Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

wsj.com

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Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#61

Post by ghaff »

csydas wrote: post #41
bilbo0s wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like she had people negotiating for her who failed to recognize the full weight of the pandemic's lasting repercussions. Who knows? They may have even negotiated this deal before the severity of the pandemic was plain? Whatever the case may be, it's a teachable moment. You almost have to have "continuous wargaming" to sort out ongoing effects the pandemic may have on your business.

>They may have even negotiated this deal before the severity of the pandemic was plain? > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_(2021_film) The talks for this began in 2017, so undoubtedly it was negotiated at that time before any real work on the film was done. So very likely, Disney is in the wrong here but I suppose it's for the courts to assess such a thing, or for Disney to find a way to make the issue go aw…

The article makes it sound as if her camp became concerned about streaming in 2019, so pre-pandemic and presumably post original contract. You'd need to be a lawyer and read the actual contract to see if there were specific representations about box office and streaming. One would think there were but Disney+ didn't even launch until 2019 so maybe that's what kicked off the concerns.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#62

Post by bilbo0s »

CydeWeys wrote: post #48
sto_hristo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Said". Good luck with "said" in the court. Movie was bad nevertheless.

It's in an email. Why would that be problematic for court?

Because it's not a contract. If emails were contracts, every email that comes later would supersede it. You can't run things that way. If you agree to it, put it in a contract. But if you wanted to allow emails as contracts, then the last email on a subject would always be the final contract for instance. It would be too unfair and difficult to sort out.

For instance, was the highlighted email the last email on the subject? If not, do those subsequent emails also represent contracts? What was in the last email? The game could go on and on. Whereas with a properly executed contract, everyone knows what everyone signed.

Now it can influence legal proceedings, but only insofar as it illustrates where a negotiation was going. And again, subsequent emails would point to where those negotiations landed in the end.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#63

Post by vidanay »

ethbr0 wrote: post #56
anigbrowl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not hard at all, actually. All stars have very savvy agents and lawyers, and the movie industry has always been a cutthroat business. Don't let the glitz and glamor blind you to the fact that it is an industry which selects for people who work very long hours and drive hard bargains, at every level. Every professional contract I've ever seen contemplates expansion into future media and markets; it's a technology driv…

Wasn't it Lucas or someone who was famous for negotiating ongoing rights / IP ownership, when the studio (in retrospect) drastically undervalued them?

Sylvester Stallone was one of the first actors to negotiate a fraction of gross revenue and rights (for Rocky).

edit: I heared the above several times over the years, but it appears it may not be true:

https://www.businessinsider.com/sylvester-stallone-on-never-...

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#64

Post by sofixa »

echelon wrote: post #50
calmd wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is if Disney blacklists her from its main franchises, Star Wars and Marvel and Pixar/Disney animation films, that is more than half of the box office these days. The box office is I think 50% super hero films now. That said I think they won't...

Maybe it was a bad idea to let Disney own almost every major studio and franchise.

And do their content distribution.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#65

Post by gnicholas »

bilbo0s wrote: post #62
CydeWeys wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's in an email. Why would that be problematic for court?

Because it's not a contract. If emails were contracts, every email that comes later would supersede it. You can't run things that way. If you agree to it, put it in a contract. But if you wanted to allow emails as contracts, then the last email on a subject would always be the final contract for instance. It would be too unfair and difficult to sort out. For instance, was the highlighted email the last email on the s…

In some jurisdictions, courts use a "four corners of the document" test, and nothing outside of the document can be used to interpret the meaning of the contract.

Other jurisdictions allow extrinsic evidence (like this email) to help interpret the language of the contract. We would need to know what the governing jurisdiction is for this contract in order to know how much an outside email would matter in court.

But in the court of public opinion (which matters somewhat for famous people and well-known companies), these legal technicalities won't matter. The headline will be that a Marvel exec said that they would need to revisit the compensation if they didn't do a standard theatrical release.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#66

Post by Joeboy »

ethbr0 wrote: post #56
anigbrowl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not hard at all, actually. All stars have very savvy agents and lawyers, and the movie industry has always been a cutthroat business. Don't let the glitz and glamor blind you to the fact that it is an industry which selects for people who work very long hours and drive hard bargains, at every level. Every professional contract I've ever seen contemplates expansion into future media and markets; it's a technology driv…

Wasn't it Lucas or someone who was famous for negotiating ongoing rights / IP ownership, when the studio (in retrospect) drastically undervalued them?

Alec Guinness made a lot of money by negotiating a percentage instead of a fee.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#68

Post by gnicholas »

anigbrowl wrote: post #45
calmd wrote: post #10

This makes sense. A lot of stars expect a cut of box office revenues and negotiate that in. But the negotiations happened probably prior to the pandemic and the new situation probably was unthinkable. Also the box office in general has been destroyed recently because of the pandemic. What would have likely been $+150M opening weekends and close to $1B totals revenue (or even more) are reduced to fractions of that. ED…

Not hard at all, actually. All stars have very savvy agents and lawyers, and the movie industry has always been a cutthroat business. Don't let the glitz and glamor blind you to the fact that it is an industry which selects for people who work very long hours and drive hard bargains, at every level. Every professional contract I've ever seen contemplates expansion into future media and markets; it's a technology driv…

> All stars have very savvy agents and lawyers...it is an industry which selects for people who work very long hours and drive hard bargains, at every level.

When I was in law school at UCLA, I considered going into entertainment law. I attended a presentation by a famous entertainment lawyer who said that the lawyers in show business are not actually the most talented — unlike other industries, the big players don't hire primarily from Harvard, Yale, etc.

Instead, the halls of Sony Pictures or Fox are lined with graduates from second- and third-tier law schools who had a foot in the door because of a family connection.

The reason he gave for this is that entertainment law is not as complex as other areas of law, so the basic contract work can be done by a not-stellar lawyer. This was a 15 years ago, and perhaps times have changed. But I'm sure that family/industry connections are still an important part of getting these jobs.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#69

Post by ghaff »

anigbrowl wrote: post #55
calmd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disney+ with 100M active subs is completely different than minor streaming services before that.

And there is nobody in Hollywood that wouldn't have anticipated that. Disney is the Microsoft of the movie world - an extremely aggressive company with a track record of dominating or being a major player in any market it chooses to compete in.

Of course, no one commenting here, especially me, knows. Obviously, they knew about streaming when negotiating the contract and may have even anticipated it might be big.

But it's at least possible that they did not anticipate that Disney might release a film in one of their tentpole franchises at the same time as in theaters. Or, more likely, the tried to get Disney to commit to a specific box office exclusivity window and Disney refused and/or offered something different in exchange which, in the absence of a pandemic, looked better by comparison.

Re: Scarlett Johansson Sues Disney over ‘Black Widow’ Streaming Release

#70

Post by tajustice1 »

silicon2401 wrote: post #19
tajustice wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind not using the term "blacklist"? It's racist and othering, ties negativity to Blacks and other PoCs. "Blocklist" and "denylist" are better terms that are neutral and more descriptive.

Please don't refer to people as "blacks" and "pocs". That's racist as it boils people down to their most superficial trait. I'm being sincere.

"Black" is a racial category for those who identify with the African diaspora: https://apnews.com/afs:Content:9105661462

"PoCs" is for people of color, all those identifying as non-white. It's not racist to use these terms, it's racist for you to denigrate them as "boiling people down". Thinking these terms are racist is a property of whiteness. I highly suggest that you read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Fragility by Robin DiAngelo so you can have some introspec into your white fragility. I'm being sincere.

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