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Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

cnbc.com

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Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#221

Post by twelve40 »

lordnacho wrote: post #108
twelve40 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Nikola thing looks pretty weird indeed, but to be fair, Musk's name for his company is also not very original, since he (or whoever) also just took the dude's name even though he had absolutely nothing to do with him.

I thought Musk joined after it had been founded? Did he change the name?

"Tesla almost had a very different name—until Elon Musk and his co-founders bought the rights to “Tesla” for $75,000"

https://fortune.com/2018/12/09/tesla-name-faraday-elon-musk/

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#222

Post by SheinhardtWigCo »

BuffaloBagel wrote: post #60

My web services company built an eBay/Craigslist clone for Milton about 10 years ago. Trump level bullshitter but with an indomitable drive. Despite being a returned Mormon missionary Trevor has a loose ethical screw.

Any good stories you can share?

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#223

Post by ArnoVW »

handmodel wrote: post #142
anyfactor wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... remember the hertz saga?

Hertz got out of bankruptcy because they have a (somewhat) profitable business model and a lot of assets they sold off. I don't think that applies here - at least not without massive growth that seems outside the realm of possibility.

If I remember the analysis of Matt Levine correctly, they have a lot cars, and even if the beginning of Covid was rough on them as ppl traveled less, the price of 2nd hand cars went up 6 months after the that and they were able to bounce back.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#224

Post by hef19898 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #153
hef19898 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am by no means an economic expert, far from it. To me it seems so, that there is way to much money flowing around, looking for an outlet. And with interest rates being all time lows since 2008 parking that money at a bank doesn't work anymore. Before 2007/8, the problem was too much money being made too easily. We solved that by creating more money. And we repeated that with Covid.

That's ZIRP for ya. https://www.readmargins.com/p/zirp-explains-the-world

This article summarizes my thoughts extremely well, thanks for that! I would throw in food and drink delivery with scooters, so!

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#225

Post by yalogin »

They even named the company to evoke Tesla and form an impression that they competing with them. This is a pure scam but now they have enough money to legitimize themselves. This is actually a great outcome for their investors, the CEO takes the blame and the company becomes legit. Just sad that this is accepted as normal. I will not be surprised if the stock sky rockets tomorrow.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#226

Post by slymon99 »

dh5 wrote: post #217
mbesto wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One company has endless growth potential, 80% gross margins, and every new customer served has marginal cost implications to the business. The other one does not. I think you can guess which one is which. For the record - I'm just as skeptical as many others are about tech valuations, but there is a legitimate reason to value companies they way we do, it's just not always a "its tech, so it has to be valued at BLAH",…

One company has also lied about "nearly all aspects of the business," so maybe its 5B valuation is based on not quite legitimate things.

I assume this is a comparison to duolingo, not Nikola.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#228

Post by ashtonkem »

anyfactor wrote: post #138
_game_of_life wrote: post #48

This should not be surprising to anyone. Arstechnica has followed Nikola's terrible and obvious fraud(s) for years now: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/nikola-admits-to-making... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/nikola-stock-craters-af... https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/nikola-patented-a-stole... And many more... The speculation around this stock has been insane for many years now: https://arstechnica.c…

I browse through a lot of niche investing social media groups. One of the more liked posts on a Nikola investment group was, "If "they" cared about the future, the earth and the renewable energy issue, they would let whatever Trevor did slide." Surprisingly, I saw similar posts about Musk on the Thailand rescuer tweet and the price too high tweet. You are not betting against the fundamentals or the realities of the s…

I’ve learned to cast a more cynical eye towards companies claiming to be accomplishing grand, ethical aims. Sometimes they’re right, of course, but it’s also a phenomenal way to sweep abuse and fraud under a rug.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#229

Post by bagels »

tenpies wrote: post #164
zippergz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the number of companies (from Tesla to Chevrolet) with large volumes actual EVs sold and on the road, I don't see how Nikola has a head start?

Nikola is probably at the same stage - if not ahead - of Tesla when it comes to trucks. How much would a Tesla with only prototype Semis and a factory under construction be valued at? About $5 BB actually sounds quite right, maybe even undervalued depending on cultist zealotry and SEC enforcement levels.

There is no way this is true. Tesla has functional factories for batteries for one.

Re: Grand jury indicts Trevor Milton, Nikola founder, on three counts of fraud

#230

Post by skystarman »

_c3bx wrote: post #141
H8crilA wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just "Copying Tesla" is not a fraud by a mile, the whole point of capitalism is that enterprises compete by offering alternative solutions[1]. It is actually surprising it took so long for someone to copy the "electric car company with Tesla characteristics", given the insanely attractive cost of equity capital that Tesla is enjoying. Matt Levine wrote a section on this, about how Elon said good-bye to earnings calls…

Whatever you think of them, the Tesla fanboys have been proven more right then wrong and the likes of Matt Levine (and Bloomberg) are just bitter at this point. A lot of EV startups like NKLA are going to come and go but very few if any will be able to replicate Teslas success in the long term. Retail investors are not always stupid, many of the same Tesla investors have been shorting NKLA since it came on via a spac…

"Whatever you think of them, the Tesla fanboys have been proven more right then wrong"

I'm not sure why that's interesting or important. The Tesla fanboys had no special insight into Tesla, Elon or anything. They are part of a cult of personality that bought the marketing hook, line, and sinker.

Only about a year ago there were hundreds of Trevor Milton fanboys all over HN, Reddit and elsewhere just sure that Nikola was the next Tesla and anyone that didn't agree was just "bitter" or had no vision. Where are they now?

There's no difference between either group of fanboys, really. Other than one got lucky and their cult leader delivered on some of his claims.

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