Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#481

Post by random314 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

vips7L wrote: post #408

random314 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The drivers license proves that you won't be an unreasonable risk to other people commandeering a 4 ton death machine on the road.

No it doesn’t. [0] [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/

Standard expected response. Which is why I said unreasonable risk. Not zero risk. To test this hypothesis, take a car and drive it around for an hour. If someone doesn't ram into you, congratulations licensing works. Otoh drive around with a bunch of 13 year olds at the wheel. Experience is going to be very different.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#482

Post by bananabiscuit » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:20 PM UTC

CyberDildonics wrote: post #467

throwaway_12_12 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you propose to do with `anti-vax nutjobs`? They won't listen to you after reading the comment, which you try to completely dismiss and dehumanize them.

It isn't "dehumanizing" someone when they ignore substantial and overwhelming evidence and others point that out.

Agreed. Let’s not ignore that: different people will have different risk/benefit profiles; that these vaccines are still in fact experimental; that there is no reproductive toxicity report for these vaccines; that there is data showing that the lipid nanoparticles from this vaccine accumulate in the ovaries; the rushed COVID vaccines are responsible for more all-cause deaths than the last 30 years of vaccines combined; that people with natural immunity have no evidence based reason to take these vaccines; that mass vaccination during pandemics create evolutionary pressure for immune escape variants; that there is now data showing that antibody-dependent enhancement is a real possibility due to these vaccines.

This all needs to be followed up on and both these worrying signs and any follow ups need to be accurately and loudly reported to the public. Instead it all gets brushed under the rug and drowned out with “safe and effective. Safe and effective. Safe and effective”.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#483

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

throwaway_12_12 wrote: post #464

skocznymroczny wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's typical. Entire pro-vax threads are allowed, but as soon as someone presents a different point of view the thread is locked and 'problematic' posts removed.

I think this is result of tribalism. People chose to divide into two groups on important matter, you can chose to belong to the group by sharing their belief system or not. Why belief system? We read leaflets listing what are painkillers made from and what side effects might come out from taking them and yet we don't read leaflets when we take vaccinations. I personally don't know a single person who would read the d…

Yes it's tribalism, and yes everyone is acting on faith, but only one side has been tricked by the Pied Piper into avoiding a vaccine that could save their lives. I wonder why that is. (You know Trump himself got vaccinated, right?)

Pied Piper to one side. Rodeo clown to the other.

Protect yourself. Don't walk into the trap.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#484

Post by boulos » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

consilla wrote: post #397

boulos wrote: post #177

Can someone explain the “I won’t get it until it’s fully approved by the FDA” logic to me? Unlike usual vaccine trials, these vaccines have been deployed worldwide with hundreds of millions of people across many different conditions. Europe stopped using some due to an extremely rare blood clotting episode that was tens of people out millions. That suggests that rare, acute side effects have been (mostly?) discovered…

I have some sympathy to this argument, even though I agree with you in overall that based on what we know from the millions of vaccines being administered, they appear to be very safe. But points in favor of the FDA argument, which is mostly around emergency authorization requiring a lower standard of evidence: - The pharmaceutical industry is notorious for manipulation of trial data to make their treatments looks as…

Does full FDA approval make a meaningful difference, though?

If anything, it seems like if someone doesn’t want to rely on the current EUA (because of limited data, incentives, etc.) then they shouldn’t suddenly be okay with the FDA’s full authorization.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#485

Post by colechristensen » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

VBprogrammer wrote: post #338

colechristensen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to believe at some point that liberty is worth a certain amount of risk. >Do you believe that someone's refusal to comply with basic sanitary precautions should take precedence over my and my family and loved one's desire to not die of a preventable disease? Did you and your family get vaccinated? What unvaccinated people do does not affect your risk profile in any meaningful way. Are your kids too young to g…

> If you're vaccinated or too young to be vaccinated, COVID-19 is over for you. The risk went from 1 in 1000 people dying to no worse than the risk in any flu season, unless that very mild risk makes you think that we should reinvent what personal freedoms in society means, stop turning and ending pandemic into a catastrophe. I'm not sure this is settled fact at the moment. There are known variants which have shown t…

Something like five billion people have yet to have a single dose, I wouldn’t be too worried about “pockets” of holdouts yet.

Yes, variants have shown to be less inhibited by vaccines… but that’s just it, less. Ever had a cold? Influenza? Variants make some vaccinated people sick, but almost none of them end up in the ICU, they’re full of unvaccinated people.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#486

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

_Algernon_ wrote: post #341

ReadEvalPost wrote: post #222

I'm really upset with this decision. I have not gotten the vaccine as I prefer the known, extremely low risk of contacting COVID over the unknown longitudinal risk of the vaccine. My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy is extremely important to me. Under no circumstances will I yield that decision to my employer! Their demand only further reinforces my desire not to take the vaccine. W…

Imagine if we had the echochambers of today around when polio was still running rampant. We would never have gotten it as close to extinction as we have now.

[deleted]

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#487

Post by FooBarBizBazz » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:30 PM UTC

fruityrudy wrote: post #364

oldcigarette wrote: post #90

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…

> “I decided the risk was worth it” It’s funny though how you say this phrase for a vaccine and not for the hundreds of other riskier situations you face daily. “I drove a car…risk was worth it I decided”. It sounds a bit self-important. Vaccines are just something you do. For me it was not a decision. It’s an interesting exploration in psychology where people oppose something mostly because they are told to do it. L…

> people want to go against things because of the people telling them to do something.

Yes, it's reverse psychology. The effect is to maximize death rates among the demographic group to which anti-vax has been successfully marketed.

> SJWs shouldn’t tell me.

SJWs aren't the ones campaigning for vaccines. Center-left technocrats are. Big difference.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#488

Post by seriousquestion » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #487

fruityrudy wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I decided the risk was worth it” It’s funny though how you say this phrase for a vaccine and not for the hundreds of other riskier situations you face daily. “I drove a car…risk was worth it I decided”. It sounds a bit self-important. Vaccines are just something you do. For me it was not a decision. It’s an interesting exploration in psychology where people oppose something mostly because they are told to do it. L…

> people want to go against things because of the people telling them to do something. Yes, it's reverse psychology. The effect is to maximize death rates among the demographic group to which anti-vax has been successfully marketed. > SJWs shouldn’t tell me. SJWs aren't the ones campaigning for vaccines. Center-left technocrats are. Big difference.

That's true, but they are the foot soldiers for the technocrats. Like Mao's Red Guard, they are the ones enforcing it on the ground, ousting dissidents and running the struggle sessions. They humiliate, bully, ostracize, get people fired, destroy reputations. Without them the technocrats would have far less power.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#489

Post by leesalminen » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:37 PM UTC

boulos wrote: post #484

consilla wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some sympathy to this argument, even though I agree with you in overall that based on what we know from the millions of vaccines being administered, they appear to be very safe. But points in favor of the FDA argument, which is mostly around emergency authorization requiring a lower standard of evidence: - The pharmaceutical industry is notorious for manipulation of trial data to make their treatments looks as…

Does full FDA approval make a meaningful difference, though? If anything, it seems like if someone doesn’t want to rely on the current EUA (because of limited data, incentives, etc.) then they shouldn’t suddenly be okay with the FDA’s full authorization.

Not the parent, but not really, no.

Over the past couple years we’ve witnessed and discussed at length the level of regulatory capture that has affected the FAA (via Boeing).

That makes me wonder if the FDA has also succumbed to the same issues (via Pfizer).

The agencies have a similar role and similar potentiality for capture. Revolving doors, lots of $ at stake, huge multinational corporations.

I’ve brought this up before and was downvoted to hell. But I’m just putting it out there without bias. It’s based on a logical thought process. I don’t understand why we can’t even discuss if there are issues with the FDA’s process being corrupted by corporations with billions of dollars.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#490

Post by random314 » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

josh_today wrote: post #294

random314 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the record I will never disclosure my health status so don’t assume one way or another. But it is kinda easy to guess from your post.

That’s your assumption. Someone can be in favor of personal health privacy, against big government, and still be pro medicine. Single minded, unquestionable, blind following is not science.

We are discussing a public safety issue here.

If you want to take a political tangent, it is your choice. Again, this is a decision by a private company. If you are against big government, you should be in favor of the freedom of private companies and individuals implementing their own policy. In your single mindedness you have failed to realize that private companies being allowed to make their own decisions is actually not an example of big government. Also, you cannot have personal health Privacy without bug government. But that is a debate for another time.