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The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

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Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#101

Post by da_big_ghey »

_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

Healthcare is scarce and i prefer market allocation to a wait list for allocation. Nation with government health care is also having scarcity problem, some things on waitlist. With a market i can throw more money at health problems, waitlist i am at the mercy of bureaucrat. This is better for me since I have worked very hard on making money and these days i have some extra i can spend for this.

I am healthy also, young somewhat, and wanting to be in healthy young risk pool to lower my costs not be in giant all-nation pool where I am accepting more financial burden.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#102

Post by cascom »

AlexandrB wrote: post #32
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #20

For those unfamiliar with the weirdness of the US insurance system: Nobody pays the prices on these bills. This is a pre-insurance bill with inflated values: > Why am I sharing one of her (pre-insurance) bills? Insurance companies have negotiated maximum allowed prices for every line item on this bill. Different insurance companies will have different negotiated rates. The insurance companies will pay either the mini…

Imagine if any other market operated like this. You walk into BestBuy and the price of a TV is $50,000. But if you take it to the cashier you will be charged some lesser amount based on what your credit card company negotiated with BestBuy. Madness.

There is another market, it’s called higher education. The vast majority of college students are not paying “sticker price” for their education

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#103

Post by RHSeeger »

55555 wrote: post #12

5,000 USD for sildenafil. In India this would cost 1 dollar. That's the generic/chemical name for viagra. A complete scam.

> 5,000 USD for sildenafil

Without insurance, it goes for about $20 for a batch of 30 in the US. You need to go to goodrx to get a coupon, but there's no cost or signin to that. Sure, it's stupid, but the cost is most definitively _NOT_ $5,000.

If the hospital is saying it's charging 5,000 for it, then it's an example of "we'll put a huge number here, then bring it way down when it's time to pay". Which is also stupid. But once again, nobody is paying that amount. The two arguments "the system is stupid" and "the price is insane" are different arguments.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#104

Post by marcinzm »

adrianN wrote: post #84
marcinzm wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors (while in pain or having other symptoms that lower quality of life significantly). If you think an American universal health system will be somehow better than that then I suspect you're a lot more optimistic about the US government than most people. edit: I do love echo chambers, someone asks a ques…

Shouldn't the point of comparison be the current state of US healthcare, were many people don't get to see a doctor at all because they're uninsured and poor? (Or at least that's the impression I get as an outsider from discussions on the Internet about the topic)

The question was why people don't like universal health care and not an objective measurement of its value to society as a while. Around 10% of the US population is uninsured so 90% does have insurance. So 90% of the population isn't comparing it to a system with no-insurance.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#105

Post by whocares2345 »

tomaszs wrote: post #47

This is the single reason why I could not live in the US. Each time I'd receive such bill, even when insured, I'd have a heart attack. How can people in the US think about anything else? It is so daunting and depressing from my point of view.

Probably because it’s not a real bill? These numbers bear no relation to money and nobody cares about them. The actual bill will be sent to insurance company, it will be 25-35% of this number, which is realistic given the cost of ultra modern equipment and high salaries for doctors. You will pay up to your maximum out of pocket, which is the real number you look at when shopping for a plan. Insurance for people who know they need lots of care is a bit more per month but has very low max out of pocket per year: $3-4k, super cheap plans for young people who never go to the hospital offer about $7k per year per person max. So this bill was never intended for the patient and there is no reason for this guy posting it except to grab some clicks and pity.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#106

Post by justupvoting »

I know it makes me a terrible asshole, but reading this makes me seethe about the infant who was brought into existence without her consent only to suffer and die (like all of us, but this is a terrible compression of that sequence with little to distract her from it-- what did this tiny suffering animal know about the beauty of sunsets? Fuckall is what)just as much as it makes me exhausted about the medical insurance system in America.

What a perfect example of gambling on the credit of the unborn. And then to be further punished by the absurd healthcare system in this country.

Christ what a depressing post to start the day.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#107

Post by hermannj314 »

enriquec wrote: post #68
rakmos wrote: post #52

This hits home for me.. my son (now 4 years old) was born very premature at 29 weeks and some change. He spent 7 weeks and 4 days in the NICU. The total hospital bill that was charged to insurance (before settling it between themselves) was roughly 960_000$. If you include the additional services and whatnot in the few months following being discharged from the hospital he was a million dollar baby. Complete insanity…

By what metric have things gotten better since the ACA?

I believe ACA was originally meant to be even stronger, with a universal option and that was opposed.

I agree with you that we should revisit and strengthen ACA and add that component back in.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#108

Post by yunohn »

xienze wrote: post #56
_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

> I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. I’m in tech. Combined HHI is something in the $200s. I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. So in a worst case scenario, let’s say healthcare costs me $9K per year. That’s what, 4% of my HHI? Will a universa…

> In the end, the poor will benefit greatly, the rich will carry on as usual, and people in the middle will get squeezed to death.

While I disagree with nearly all of your post, I can find reason in the closing statement.

I feel like this logic often evades the people asking for higher taxes to support their causes. It’s always the middle class that ends up paying for it. It creates a lot of resentment which is exactly what fuels the rest of your post.

I wish there was a way this could be avoided, but obviously, it’s by design.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#109

Post by skeletal88 »

jzwinck wrote: post #3

A quarter million US dollars. Of course the hospital never expects to receive this amount of money. Either they will negotiate it down for uninsured patients, or they will accept a lesser amount from the insurance company. Insurance companies like this over representation of costs because: 1. If you have a percentage copay (edit: "coinsurance"), say 10%, they will tell you to pay $25k because it's 10%, but they might…

The obligatory comment about how crazy this is on many levels.

1. You are being charged prices that you are not expected to pay, but need to negotiate on

2. When you go to a doctor to have a procedure or have an emergency then you don't know what you are paying.

In normal countries there is A price list, which is THE price list for all hospitals that are part of the national health care system. If they want to have a contract with the national health insurance, then they need to agree to these prices for all the possible procedures. So when someone is saying "but we can't be sure of the price, maybe there are complications and additional costs" then this is bs, many-many other countries manage to have fixed price lists. Or maybe there is an item there for exceptional cases, when something addtional needs to be done in addition to the original procedure? Either way, it's already handled, the patient doesn't need to worry about this stuff. And the same goes for private clinics, they also have a fixed price list, nobody would go to them if you could get a surprise bill that would be 2-3-10x the amount originally agreed upon, that would be insane and.. very bad PR for the clinic.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#110

Post by hef19898 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #8
_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

Single payer healthcare systems in Europe were introduced a long time ago. Back then, politics was different, not least because of an imminent threat of the Soviet Bloc just around the corner and a need to answer it by "carrot", too, not just "stick". They are now status quo, but in another version of history, where such systems would have to be introduced today , I am not certain whether they could clear the politic…

Social security nets in Europe date back to time we used to have Emperors and Kings, before WW1. They are thus older than the USSR.
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