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The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

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Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#91

Post by coldcode »

What would be even more informative is (1) what does the hospital/doctors actually receive from the insurance company (2) what would the hospital/doctors get if the parents had zero insurance (3) what would a hospital in each of the 99%+ other countries' hospital/doctors with a national system get for the same issue and timeframe. That's essentially the argument of the US getting some kind of single payer system that works (Medicare atm is only semi-working as it doesn't completely function due to political interference and bureaucratic inertia).

In the US the system is designed to ensure profits are higher than the cost of treating patients who have no insurance, and patients on Medicare/Medicaid/VA where negotiated pricing is limiting to profits. So the major task for healthcare companies is to do everything to maximize the profits and minimize costs that don't support higher profits, and for the insurance companies to collect more from companies and individuals to cover the healthcare companies need for profits, while maximizing their profits as well.

While healthcare in other countries may also wish to keep costs under control, if there is no profit requirement, they have much more flexibility. Of course there is no universal solution to healthcare, but the incentive outside the US is different as long as profit is not the only thing that matters.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#92

Post by almostvindiesel »

I'm sorry for your loss OP.

We had premature twins who both stayed in the NICU for around three months. Our total hospital bills came out to just under five million dollars. Fortunately we also had great insurance and received great care.

We fought with the insurance/hospital/vendors for over a year and was on the phone with them every single week for hours to get the covered procedures included. An annoyance, but we were able to navigate it. Our twins are thriving today.

Other families were not so lucky. We watched under or uninsured parents have to make decisions between the health of their sick children and their own financial livelihood. As educated privileged workers, the system worked for us. But it fails many. There has got to be a better way

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#93

Post by hi41 »

Most important parts of human existence have been colonized. I don’t know how we will be able to recover our freedom. Who would have thought 50 years ago that drinking water is something we would pay for. Healthcare which citizens need most has also been colonized. I read a sad story where a devout husband had to divorce his very sick wife so that she could get medicaid payment to pay her bills.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#94

Post by selfmodruntime »

I feel a lot of empathy for OP, but there are some choices I find very difficult to understand.

> our child, with life-saving intervention, surgeries, and therapy, could, and should live a happy, healthy, fulfilled life, at least until adulthood

Sorry, but I can't grasp why you would condemn a 24 weeks old fetus to a life of a) possibly not suffering and b) only living until you're 20 or so years old, when you have the choice of termination. Even if (and that's a big if) you try your best and your child lives until she's a young adult, all of that will be taken from her in her young age because you made the decision to give birth to her regardless, even if you knew all the hardships that would be coming for her.

I am very sorry for her death, but a lot of suffering could have been avoided if they had listened to their medical professionals.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#95

Post by hef19898 »

Y_Y wrote: post #66
minikites wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who are against universal healthcare usually pitch it as an argument for "choice", as if I'm going to compare prices when I have a ruptured appendix. It's also usually couched in anti-government sentiment, where they draw comparisons to "lines at the DMV", as if other countries with universal healthcare have people dying while waiting in line for care, something that also doesn't happen.

I'm a big fan of universal healthcare, and have made great use of both public and private hospitals in Europe and the US. Everywhere I've lived (except the US) has had a totally free public system, and every time I've still paid for private insurance. I'm not rich by any means, and I don't have any particularly special requirements. I'm not even looking for better doctors or machines, since they are mostly shared or…

The countries I have direct experience with, France and Germany, don't have any issues with people dying while waiting for procedures. Experts are usually readily available, so there are exceptions.

I don't know of any public health care system in developed countries that have really these issues. I do know so, that a lot of that comes from a PR campaign run by US insurances against the Canadian system.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#96

Post by ceejayoz »

marcinzm wrote: post #69
_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors (while in pain or having other symptoms that lower quality of life significantly). If you think an American universal health system will be somehow better than that then I suspect you're a lot more optimistic about the US government than most people. edit: I do love echo chambers, someone asks a ques…

> I've heard a lot of negative stories about the British health system including people waiting 6+ months to see doctors...

The wait time for an American at the poverty line seeking care for an expensive but non-emergency chronic condition can be effectively infinite.

My wife receives treatment for chronic pain. Getting treatment at a pain clinic started required five visits (including being able to physically get there in the first place), lab work, etc. Each of those required a hefty co-pay, and someone on a Bronze ACA plan will have a multi-thousand dollar deductible to meet before even those kick in.

If you're working minimum wage and have a pain condition, treatment is likely inaccessible, even if you technically have fully subsidized health insurance.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#97

Post by boopboopbadoop »

xienze wrote: post #56
_huayra_ wrote: post #2

I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. When you have an $8k deductible, your insurance is basically a gift to the CEO's yacht fund.

> I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. I’m in tech. Combined HHI is something in the $200s. I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. So in a worst case scenario, let’s say healthcare costs me $9K per year. That’s what, 4% of my HHI? Will a universa…

Do you plan to retire? What will happen then?

Do your family and friends have the same insurance plan? What will happen to them if they don’t?

Seems short-sighted, yet telling, to talk only about the present time, and only about yourself.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#98

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

PSA:

If you think you have been the victim of medical overbilling or claims fraud, talk to Adam Russo at Phia Group

https://www.phiagroup.com/About-Us/Leadership/Executive-Team

He compensates his staff AND PATIENTS accordingly to the level of fraud that they can detect on hospital bills. So they will leave no stone unturned.

DISCLAIMER: I don't know or have ever talked to Adam Russo. I don't work, have any relationship, or financial connection with their firm. I have only heard they do good work and I am only an admirer of what they do.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#99

Post by simonh »

ceejayoz wrote: post #65
xienze wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how people can be so anti-universal healthcare in the US. Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. I’m in tech. Combined HHI is something in the $200s. I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. So in a worst case scenario, let’s say healthcare costs me $9K per year. That’s what, 4% of my HHI? Will a universa…

> Because I have zero faith that it will end up costing me less, and have a similar level of quality. The US spends 2-3x per capita (counting both public and private spending; https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm ) than the rest of the OECD, with remarkably similar health outcomes. > I pay about $300 per month for the entire family, $5K out of pocket max. You're just paying your healthcare tax to your…

The problem is the anti-single payer faction in the US is large, powerful and well funded. They would do their level best to cripple any such system as badly as possible, so they could say "I told you so", as they did with Obamacare. Therefore it is quite possible a single payer system in the US would not work out anywhere near as good a deal as it has almost everywhere else.

It's hard to believe it could possibly still end up worse than the current system, but I worry that it would be a 'hold my beer' moment.

Re: The cost of two weeks in an pediatric/infant ICU

#100

Post by inglor »

rakmos wrote: post #52

This hits home for me.. my son (now 4 years old) was born very premature at 29 weeks and some change. He spent 7 weeks and 4 days in the NICU. The total hospital bill that was charged to insurance (before settling it between themselves) was roughly 960_000$. If you include the additional services and whatnot in the few months following being discharged from the hospital he was a million dollar baby. Complete insanity…

In Israel we have public healthcare. I was born at week 32 and spent about 6 weeks in the NICU - everything was free.

It's not always great and I do pay for private insurance in case I need something urgent - but everything emergency is absolutely covered.

I believe it's this state in most developed places that are not the US?

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