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Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

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Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#421

Post by nojito »

colechristensen wrote: post #154
bdhess wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HIPPA is absolutely not too strict, it has many fundamental holes which need to be plugged. Citation needed? It’s HIPAA, by the way; one P and two As. > There is a developing liberty/security divide which is going very much in the direction of far too far. Total drivel. I’m sick of lockdowns and mask mandates. If you’re legally and medically eligible for a vaccine and you haven’t gotten one, I’m happy for private b…

>Citation needed? https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... There is an example. There has been a proliferation of for-profit companies offering health-related services which aren't counted as healthcare providers which a freely selling and distributing personal data for profit, to law enforcement, and accidentally because they are "not medicine" but in reality they are indeed collecting data ab…

You expressly allow that sharing of information when you use that service.

Also anonymizes healthcare data is neigh impossible to reconstruct so I don’t understand your claim.

Do you have any proof?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#422

Post by ViViDboarder »

kkoncevicius wrote: post #309
graftak wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abortion is another example of > My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy and also something that is typically condemned by the anti-vax crowd. The comment implies hypocrisy.

Well this would then apply to the other side too - being pro-vaccine and pro-abortion is the same kind of hypocrisy.

Not necessarily. Many people may generally not want the government mandating or forbidding any kind of procedures, yet still find a compelling argument in public health with a vaccine. That argument doesn’t exist with something like abortion, euthanasia, psychedelics, or even something as benign as wisdom teeth removal.

Not every argument can be properly inverted.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#423

Post by joshuahughes »

deanc wrote: post #243
makomk wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, anyone who's genuinely at risk enough that they can't risk being exposed despite being vaccinated - as opposed to the people who were convinced they are because of stupid media culture war bullshit - probably shouldn't be working in an office, because at that point they're going to be at reasonably comparable risk from the common cold. Seriously. The other four endemic human coronaviruses, for example, are…

As I mentioned in my comment, many folks have families. We are not dealing with individuals when it comes to a pandemic. We are dealing with contagion amongst bubbles of people. Many people have vulnerable people in their bubbles at home and need to make a living.

But how is this different from previously? Flu, common cold, various other viruses... all present a similar threat to that from covid and spread as easily. What has changed with covid to create so much additional fear and the subsequent authoritarian responses? Any decent person would just keep away from the office if they were ill. What's changed that now a particular course of action has to be mandated with the threat of job-loss as the alternative?

Seems to me that those who are concerned about unfairness for one group are simply transferring that unfairness to another group.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#424

Post by tpm »

jeofken wrote: post #404
tpm wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral logic would not be similar at all, because obesity is neither infectious nor acutely deadly. Sure it probably will kill you, but it will kill you indirectly and it will take deveral decades to do that. But it will not kill your immunocompromised coworker and his frail parents.

It it kills as many per year, but technically is not infectious, it would still deserve the same moral weight, so the similie holds. There are many ways you can use force and threats to make people live healthier, if you don’t consider them the owners of their bodies that is

But Google is not trying to make people live healthier, it doesn't care about that. Google is trying to prevent hazardous working conditions for their employees. All vaccination mandates are about that: they don't care about the vaccinated or unvaccinated person, they care about the risk that person presents for its environment. In that sense the obesity analogy completely fails.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#425

Post by Fine-Cut4983 »

fruityrudy wrote: post #364
oldcigarette wrote: post #90

I work at google and am vaxxed but this pisses me off. I decided that the vaccine was worth the risk and for the best overall but if someone makes a different calculus I can understand and respect that. IMHO they gone way outside the reasonable scope of an employer - this is a cultural decision at the society level - why the fuck does my employer give a shit about this. Unless the employees are only commuting back an…

> “I decided the risk was worth it” It’s funny though how you say this phrase for a vaccine and not for the hundreds of other riskier situations you face daily. “I drove a car…risk was worth it I decided”. It sounds a bit self-important. Vaccines are just something you do. For me it was not a decision. It’s an interesting exploration in psychology where people oppose something mostly because they are told to do it. L…

Of course you made a decision, unless you are an automaton? (ignoring the question of free will here). If the vaccine killed 90% of those who took it, you would of course take it, because "vaccines are just something you do"? No, you evaluated the risk.

And yes, driving a car absolutely is a risk, as is just about everything.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#426

Post by Spooky23 »

ds206 wrote: post #78
Spooky23 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccination doesn’t mean you cannot be infected, and cannot spread it once infected. It lowers the chances of infection and presentation of symptoms. So when your unvaccinated coworker exercises his selfish right to be stupid, you’re putting others at risk. The difference here is that your exposing your coworkers children and others who cannot be vaccinated to infection. We socially tolerate people like this who choo…

What's the point of a right if it can't be exercised?

Your right to make bad choices doesn’t create an obligation for me to sit with you, nor for my employer to employ you.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#427

Post by Fine-Cut4983 »

f6v wrote: post #405
grepfru_it wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am not sorry about people like you getting infected or hospitalized. I was one of those people this time last year. No one was feeling sorry then either. Don't worry I'll get a booster shot when it is due, but I've done my part. Please don't lump me in with the unvaxxed. EDIT: to be clear, i was just an innocent bystander who caught covid-19 early on while no one could possibly believe i was having the symptoms th…

> don't know what a vaccine is going to do for me (at this junction in time, maybe T+12 months will be different lets see what the science says) We do know what a vaccine does, especially in the case of viral vectors(they’ve been around for decades). What specifically seems to be unknown?

Can you provide a reference to a single viral vector vaccine with widespread usage prior to this year?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#428

Post by JesseMReeves »

f6v wrote: post #411
sennight wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1.8% case fatality rate That looks like a scary number until you look at it by age, then it looks very different. If you were at risk of dying from flu before COVID then your odds got worse, everybody else's risk level is largely unchanged. Should employers mandate that healthy employees get experimental vaccines in order to improve the mortality rate among non-employees who were already at risk of being taken out…

This reasoning works only if you believe the society isn’t supposed to help the vulnerable. It’s clear that the older you get, the worse your immunity works. A vaccine isn’t 100% efficient in the first place and will work worse on a 70 yo than on a 30 yo. This means that in order to protect the vulnerable, the society has to achieve herd immunity.

Herd immunity would only occur if the vaccine stopped transmission, right?

Sadly, this is not the case. Vaccinated people achieve high viral loads too.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#429

Post by native_samples »

simondotau wrote: post #217
nindalf wrote: post #184

I’ve typed out 3 comments to 3 separate people before deleting them. I didn’t see the point. Folks, it’s a good idea to heed dang’s warning at the top of the thread. I’ve read all the comments and can confidently say there’s nothing worth reading here. Just people absolutely convinced of their ideas and principles, shouting past each other. Nothing we haven’t seen on this topic 50 times before. You’re better off goin…

As someone who also started reading the comments in this thread, I can wholeheartedly second this. Remember, nobody is going to change their mind on this issue because of a perfectly worded response in an internet discussion. If you want to change anyone's mind, focus on the people you can speak to in the real world—and have a conversation filled with love and respect. Fear of vaccination is a powerful meme which can…

No, really, better not. The people who are "captured" by this meme, as you rather condescendingly put it, generally don't trust the vaccine safety statistics, have many valid reasons not to do so, and are also well aware of the statistics around how dangerous COVID is or isn't for themselves. It would take great faith to believe that the institutions are providing reliable data right now in an atmosphere of mass hysteria.

How about, rather than assuming people you disagree with are "captured" by "memes", you sit down, treat them like intelligent adults, listen to them and only then consider what to do?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#430

Post by [deleted] »

atomashpolskiy wrote: post #325
tester34 wrote: post #276

vaccines / covid are the new politics/religion from speaking from identity[0]? [0] http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

I can absolutely feel a kind of religious zeal and moral superiority from the pro-vax side. It will be hilariously stupid if long-term side effects turn out to be real.

[deleted]
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