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Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

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Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#21

Post by ajsnigrutin »

Aerroon wrote: post #19
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #10

So, what item, that mr. Johnny Average uses daily, will now be banned (or made more expensive, by having to use barely "recyclable" materials), while nothing will be done about huge industries, and other countries that pollute a lot more? We,ve forbidden plastic bags and replaced them with reusable bags, which contain more plastic, or with cotton ones, tha thave to be reused 20.000times, to make it worth it, compared…

> while nothing will be done about huge industries But Johnny Average is what all those huge industries are ultimately there for. It all leads to production of goods for the people. Also, straws, plastic bags etc are actually a different issue. Those are about plastic pollution and have little to do with climate change. Also also, plastic pollution is not as big of an apparent problem in the West. Who knows with micr…

Nah, johnny will now buy more expensive, bamboo plastic straws, in plastic packaging, in a plastic box, with multiple boxes in a plastic covered cardboard box, and all of that wrapped in plastic foil. He will also buy a reusable bag, made from much more plastic than single-use ones, and per gram of plastic, wont last as long.

Johnny will also be told not to drive his car... by a guy, who went to the interview in his private jet. Media will also praise a kid, who uses a sailing-yacht to travel, because she doesn't want to fly (due to carbon emissions), and in turn, she needs a whole team to operate the boat, which will then have to fly back home with a plane. We also pay a lot of money for recycling our goods, to be then just burned (and just stuff like copper scrapped) in 3rd world countries.

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#22

Post by ajsnigrutin »

andrepd wrote: post #16
simmerup wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully policy makers will target both consumers and industry in order to tackle this crisis. Otherwise when we’re talking to our kids, and they’re asking us what we did to stop the climate crisis, all we’ll be able to say is ‘Child, I gave up unlimited free plastic bags for you, what more could I have done?’

I think the point is so far action has been limited to token actions (such as the ridiculous straw thing) targeted at consumers, and no real action targeted at companies.

Yep, this is exactly my point. Ban straws, and let the industry pollute... people notice, government is "doing something", and in the end, nothing is done.

And of course, stuff like this:

https://qz.com/690321/leonardo-dicaprio-took-an-outrageous-8...

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#23

Post by ajsnigrutin »

pharmakom wrote: post #14
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #10

So, what item, that mr. Johnny Average uses daily, will now be banned (or made more expensive, by having to use barely "recyclable" materials), while nothing will be done about huge industries, and other countries that pollute a lot more? We,ve forbidden plastic bags and replaced them with reusable bags, which contain more plastic, or with cotton ones, tha thave to be reused 20.000times, to make it worth it, compared…

Plastic bag charge is to prevent fly tipping / littering more than anything else. It definitely encourages bag re-use, including for plastic bags. “Ban” is probably the wrong word. It’s really an artificial price floor of about 5c.

I see a lot more plastic bottles on the ground than bags. Usually you need a bag to take stuff home, and once there, you use it for trash, and then take the trash to the outside/large trash can. Plastic bottle.. you drink the contents, and some people just throw it away.

Some countries have returnable plastic bottles (so at worst, homeless/poor people pick them up, to make some money). Most don't.

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#24

Post by fit2rule »

josh_today wrote: post #4

What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points” https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-poca...

Time. This is the current call to arms.

Unless you've got a time machine and can go back to those previous incidents and tell everyone they are wrong, of course ..

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#25

Post by spicymaki »

josh_today wrote: post #4

What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points” https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-poca...

The CEI article cherry picks sensational headlines with failed predictions, but that does not prove that climate change is not having disastrous effects on the environment.

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#26

Post by spicymaki »

andrepd wrote: post #17
josh_today wrote: post #4

What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points” https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-poca...

I didn't expect climate change denialism and the most base and idiotic and tabloid-tier cherry picking of facts, here on hn.

HN is a public forum. Even with heroic moderation efforts you find idiotic tabloid-tier rants for every topic.

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#27

Post by CodeGlitch »

probably_wrong wrote: post #9
josh_today wrote: post #4

What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points” https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-poca...

I would be suspicious abount anything published by "one of the Conservative think tanks funded to overturn the environmentalism of the 1960s, central to promoting climate change denial"[1]. The article is also clearly written in bad faith, with their so-called "counter-arguments" being a case of selectively choosing the information that supports their agenda and discarding everything else. Having said that: that arti…

> environmentalism of the 1960s,

Unfortunately is was those very environmentalists who fought hard to stop the nuclear industry - and now it may be too late even with the explosion of green-technologies.

> global warming

I believe "climate change" is a better term to use these days.

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#28

Post by ghufran_syed »

probably_wrong wrote: post #9
josh_today wrote: post #4

What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points” https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-poca...

I would be suspicious abount anything published by "one of the Conservative think tanks funded to overturn the environmentalism of the 1960s, central to promoting climate change denial"[1]. The article is also clearly written in bad faith, with their so-called "counter-arguments" being a case of selectively choosing the information that supports their agenda and discarding everything else. Having said that: that arti…

No, more of an existence proof - the fact that people have been saying similar things since at least the 60’s should make us at least consider the possibility that the reason for the current warnings are similar to the reason for the previous warnings. Sure, maybe all those other warnings were in good faith and happened to be wrong, while the current warnings are also in good faith and might turn out to be correct. But if you can’t even consider the possibility, then we’re in the realm of religion, not science.

Here’s a climate scientist who agrees about climate change, but disagrees about the urgency and nature of the actions justified, hopefully that doesn’t define him as “not in his right mind” -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Lomborg

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#29

Post by berikv »

vaylian wrote: post #2

Public link to paper: https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1... But how do we make politicians aware of the seriousness?

Thanks for the question (which should be on the top, instead of the climate change deniers).

Politicians are chosen by the citizens. So the question could be rephrased to “how do we make a big portion of the world aware of the seriousness?”.

A web search for “how to convince your opponent” gives some great suggestions:

———————————————————— How to Convince Someone Ask them to share their thoughts. Match their type of reasoning -- if they're being emotional, appeal to their emotions; if they're relying on logic, be logical. Get them to lower their guard with a genuine compliment. Pose a counter-argument (without making them defensive). ————————————————————

This is quite counter intuitive: I would think that if you would tell the data and scientific method used to obtain the data you would be able to convince anyone, but not so.

Instead you have to open the discussion and have both sides on the table, which leads to ridiculous situations eg: a TV show gives a scientist who builds upon many years of research equal time to speak on some matter as a fancy vlogger with a quirky opinion.

The more noise you make the more you will be noticed. If people aren’t confronted with their actions, they have little chance to change their opinion and behaviour. It is important to be respectful while also making clear that change is needed, by each and everyone.

Re: Thousands of scientists warn climate tipping points ‘imminent’

#30

Post by papaf »

josh_today wrote: post #4

What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points” https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-of-failed-eco-poca...

> What makes this group of scientists and their warning more legitimate than these previous “imminent tipping points”

Better models and more computing power?

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