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Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

nytimes.com

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Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you believe CBT applies here? As a person-in-therapy for upwards of 4 years now, I'm not seeing the connection.

I referred to 'What you’re saying absolutely makes sense. The difficult part is that it requires intentional habit changes and quite honestly, a grieving process at the same time.' While I have no personal experience with CBT, I'd guess some form of that is needed, if you don't manage to change that behaviour on your own. As in learning to let go of what is stopping your 'flow'. Or simply overcoming bad habits. edit:…

While CBT is certainly related to changing habits and behaviors, and while it's conceivable that Internet use by some individuals might become so problematic that a therapist needs to get involved, CBT is not necessary to be intentional about things.

My general point was: the Internet has changed, so if you're still using your old habits, you'll probably need to change those. If a person finds they cannot muster the will to do so, perhaps then they should see a therapist and consider CBT, but this also doesn't need to be that complicated. Sometimes awareness is all that is required.

> While I don't know your personal situtation, and don't want to be rude, or 'diss' you in any way, 4 years seems harsh. I would long have quit that, because it would seem ineffective to me. Like talking to a wall, parking meter, or something like that. Maybe change therapist?

I've seen a few therapists during that time, and each has been really instrumental in my progress. I'll probably be seeing someone for the majority of my adult life.

I've spoken about this openly in other threads, so feel free to dive deeper into my comment history if you are curious, but I'm working through deep seeded issues stemming from complex trauma that spanned the entirety of my childhood.

One does not unravel decades of trauma in a year, or four years, for that matter, and I'm eternally grateful for the trauma-aware therapist I'm working with now - someone who I will probably continue seeing for many years to come. I'm a very different person than I was four years again, or even a year ago. These things take time.

Please take this in the sprit it is intended, but I would recommend not handing out recommendations related to mental health without understanding the situation. I'm concerned at where this thread started (mis-application of CBT) and is ending. Again, please don't take this the wrong way, but I'd be careful not to derail others who may be earlier in their journeys, not yet sure how to navigate all of this.

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#302
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an issue with your perception of the reporting, not what actually happened.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ends-ban-on-posts-asse... You’ve got a very short memory. Facebook was banning accounts that even brought it up.

Man made virus leaked intentionally =/ nature virus that escaped by accident. The latter is what is being discussed as possible, the former was and still is a deranged conspiracy.

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#303

I have a hard time to take seriously any disinformation talk from the political and media establishment after the lab leak theory twist, where it had been shameful disinformation, until it suddenly wasn't. I have to be doubting publications even from reputable sources, after "The Lancet" fiasco, where the organizer of the open letter that condemned the lab leak theory was discovered to have ties with the lab in quest…

> I have a hard time to take seriously any disinformation talk from the political and media establishment after the lab leak theory twist, where it had been shameful disinformation, until it suddenly wasn't. The "lab leak" theory hasn't actually changed any. Intelligence has the same conclusions as they had last year, they don't know. The only thing that has "changed" is the rabid reporting on the subject, either cal…

Do you have a source for your claim?

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#304

Classic projection from mainstream news. With the amount of disinformation put out by NYTimes, it's easier to point the finger elsewhere. If you want to block NYTimes and all contributors on your account, try this: https://www.blocknyt.com/

What is an example of something published by the NYT, that has been proven false, that hasn't been retracted and removed?

Any example at all?

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#305
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an issue with your perception of the reporting, not what actually happened.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-ends-ban-on-posts-asse... You’ve got a very short memory. Facebook was banning accounts that even brought it up.

You're actually conflating two different things, in case it wasn't clear.

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why? Because the majority of people prefer mindless trash to the idiosyncrasies of a local county commission meeting. >I don't have a good answer because media companies have to make money to stay in business. Making them backed by the state is an even worse idea. An excellent point. Local media outlets (in the US at least, not sure about elsewhere) are few and far between these days. We need local news that focuses…

Is there a specific reason I should care about the local commission meeting? I honestly care even less about local news than nation wide, which I don’t care about at all.

>Is there a specific reason I should care about the local commission meeting? I honestly care even less about local news than nation wide, which I don’t care about at all.

If you don't care about most of the decisions, and the people who make them, that directly impact your life, then no.

But if you care about the legal, civil and societal issues in your local area, like land use, taxes, local services, etc., you might have some interest.

Having answered your question, I'm starting to wonder if it was rhetorical or not. Not sure which I'd prefer it to be.

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m sure I would have had a better life as a hunter-gatherer[1]. [1] Not even joking, this is an actual reply. No, you just seem to be unwilling accept that reply that argued that we worked less than today - which is true. So your suggestion that the "natural state of nature" is struggle and hardship fell flat.

Yes, you’re right. I’m sure the archeologists have very high confidence about how life 30k was years ago, when disability, a dry summer or a shitty winter, childbirth gone anything other than perfectly well, or a bad encounter with a predator meant death, was so much easier than your tech job making $300k to move your fingers a little bit. Any survivalist will tell you how much of their downtime is around tool prep,…

This might be the most childishly shallow and one sided reply I've ever read. Pathetic.

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#308
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first of these is a stub and might be unclear on the meaning of "originated in". Again, if you read it as "engineered" I do not think I can disagree with its content. The second is the one I referred to and seems to have appeared at most a day later. Also - what exactly is your point? Like the other readers here I could probably be convinced that my example is bad, and you might even be able to make us adjust our…

Ok, stubs a stub, fair enough. Here is a more substantive criticism: In this article the author engages in a smear of the anthropogenic conjecture and of Sen Cotton by associations invented by the article itself. It may as well as ask "when did you stop beating your wife" as much as "when did Sen Cotton stop saying coronavirus was a bioweapon." Truthfully the article never establishes that Sen Cotton claimed that cor…

I missed this earlier, sorry and thank you for the well-researched post.

Among other things, I will happily agree with you that the Snopes page is simply not correct. I will not hold the NY times responsible for that, however.

As you have surely seen, in his twitter thread the senator does list "the engineered-bioweapon hypothesis" as a possible option, and also says that "the so-called experts" do not really know any better.

So I can see the viewpoint of the NY times: it is newsworthy if a senator lends credence to a possibility that scientists widely dismissed. As an analogy, a senator who believes that the earth is flat might be equally interesting for a news publication - even if it is masked by phrases like 'we need to keep an open mind', 'the experts might be wrong', etc -- 'the earth might be flat' is simply not a reasonable position for a senator to hold.

But I can also see your point. It was early days of the pandemic and there were lots of unknowns. The general gist of the argument was one of caution and keeping an open mind towards all possibilities, which was healthy. And for a senator it would have been hard at those times to distinguish between something that scientists almost universally dismissed and something that they were still debating about.

Perhaps we can agree that the newsworthiness of the content of the NY times article was not entirely obvious, and the reasons it was published anyway could have been political (even if this was not consciously done). Based on your research it seems that the resulting storm of negative publicity by other outlets was not justified.

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#309
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, stubs a stub, fair enough. Here is a more substantive criticism: In this article the author engages in a smear of the anthropogenic conjecture and of Sen Cotton by associations invented by the article itself. It may as well as ask "when did you stop beating your wife" as much as "when did Sen Cotton stop saying coronavirus was a bioweapon." Truthfully the article never establishes that Sen Cotton claimed that cor…

I missed this earlier, sorry and thank you for the well-researched post. Among other things, I will happily agree with you that the Snopes page is simply not correct. I will not hold the NY times responsible for that, however. As you have surely seen, in his twitter thread the senator does list "the engineered-bioweapon hypothesis" as a possible option, and also says that "the so-called experts" do not really know an…

Agree totally that NYT's framing of Cotton's position and statements was not reality based. If it exists, political bias is less significant than confirmation bias and echo chamber effects. Snopes has no excuse for not performing a basic check of NYT editorialized claims.

Please read the NYT editorial (2/17) [0] and Cotton's tweet (2/16) [1] again. The NYT claimed "Mr. Cotton later walked back the idea that the coronavirus was a Chinese bioweapon run amok." There is no walk back in that tweet. There is a continued questioning of the Chinese food market claims. Bioweapon is placed within the less likely range of different possibilities that start with natural transmission, noted by Cotton as being "still the most likely."

The tweet is in response to claims by a Washington Post article [2], later corrected with the statement "Earlier versions of this story and its headline inaccurately characterized comments by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.) regarding the origins of the coronavirus. The term “debunked” and The Post’s use of “conspiracy theory” have been removed because, then as now, there was no determination about the origins of the virus."

I'd like to visit your statement As you have surely seen, in his twitter thread the senator does list "the engineered-bioweapon hypothesis" as a possible option, and also says that "the so-called experts" do not really know any better.

The full final tweet in the thread is "We ought to be transparent with the American people about all this. Maybe some of these so-called experts think they know better. I don’t. And they really don’t either."

In your statement it sounds like Cotton is claiming experts aren't a good source for judging among possibilities. I think a stronger text-based interpretation is that he is writing about _transparency_ and that some people who are claimed as experts don't want transparency.

At least two of Cotton's public statements focused on Covid origins cited the Huang et al Lancet article [3] which was authored by physicians on the scene. Cotton didn't lend "credence to a possibility that scientists widely dismissed." He drew attention to the fact that there was authentic scientific disagreement with the claims of Chinese authorities about the origins.

The tragedy in all this is that the hypothesizing the virus' origin wasn't the significant part of the message. It was an example for the broader point that the outbreak was serious and that Chinese authorities were not behaving with candor. The specific analogy Cotton made repeatedly was to the Soviet Chernobyl response.

0. https://web.archive.org/web/20200217083402/https://www.nytim...

1. https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1229202134048133126?...

2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/16/tom-cotto...

3. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Re: Disinformation for hire, a shadow industry, is quietly booming

#310
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh for the love of Buttigeig, if the Democratic Party had an organ, I would hope it would do a better job of stating policy and sticking to it. If The Times is your idea of a lefty boogie man, life must be pretty easy.

Please distinguish between Democratic Party and actual leftism. I don't like NYT because they keep lying us into stupid wars, which isn't leftist at all.

>"Please distinguish between Democratic Party and actual leftism."

I am so tired of this trope. Nothing is ever 'true leftism' and yet everything that opposes 'the left' is automatically binned as authoritarian, fascist, hard-right, *-ist, etc.

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