Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#371

Post by ericmay » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

makomk wrote: post #336

ericmay wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) That's not really a convincing response. There were only two viral vector vaccines ever approved for human use before 2020, both for ebola I believe, and therefore probably not widely administered. So the concern isn't mRNA or is it? > 2. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Sure, but it also means you need some sort of empirical or a priori starting point. There isn't even a hypothesis to gather evid…

The mechanism of action of the Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca vaccines is DNA, which is effectively like mRNA but with a couple of extra steps with their own risk attached. I think there's some suspicion that the blood clotting issues with the AZ vaccine were due to errors in the DNA to mRNA transcription causing erroneous and dangerous proteins to be produced. There's not really any traditional inactivated vaccin…

So are you suggesting that the risk of Covid-19 vaccines is blood clotting?

What’s the incidence rate? How does that compare against the risk of getting Covid-19?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#372

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #367

version_five wrote: post #352

It saddens me to see that all the top comments on these posts are just some empty populist yelling, variations on "good, after all, there's a war going on". And counterpoints end up being strawmen about vaccines not working anyway. Whatever your end conclusion about whether this is a good move, it's a complex issue that balances a lot of things and is worthy of serious discussion. Instead we get basically an online n…

It's not actually very complex, and in fact for public schools was already a settled issue. It's only become controversial because of rising anti-vaxx sentiment and conspiratorial thinking. Just because something has become a flashpoint issue doesn't mean it's complex. Gay marriage was also controversial for a long time, despite being quite straightforward.

[deleted]

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#373

Post by amrcnimgrnt » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:56 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #341

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked honestly, and seriously. I want to be taught, explained to. Not given lip. I take (strong) exception to be characterized as "blase". My kids aren't eligible for vaccination either. I can assure you Im not "blase" about their health. You might want to look at the actual statistics of the harm of COVID for under 12. If that frightens you, that's fine, but then I would encourage you to look at other daily behavi…

>> "Who are the unvaccinated hurting, exactly?" > You might want to look at the actual statistics of the harm of COVID for under 12. If that frightens you, that's fine, but then I would encourage you to look at other daily behaviors and their risks. It doesn't matter what the statistics are, it's a risk they're exposed to because of the unvaccinated, anti-maskers, and people looking for every fucking excuse they can…

My only objection to your original post was your tone. Specifically dismissing my question as blase. Otherwise I thought your father's condition was the only good objection I've read so far. In fact, my wife being temporarily immunocompromised herself is why I signed up to a vaccine trial. But then you go off and swear at me on your subsequent post.

As to your italized "because of the vaccinated" your kids are at risk (irregardless the small risk): that's really no different than me having to walk in a city surrounded by texting motorists. The difference being that texting kills far more people and yet, despite laws to the contrary, nothing is done about it.

Seriously, let's mandate locking up phones that are moving more than 5mph. It'll save far more <12 year old lives than vaccinating everyone.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#374

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

neither_color wrote: post #20

Whatarethese wrote: post #2

Good. Its time to stop messing around with this. The vaccines are tested and are safe.

I'm vaccinated and I personally don't care if others choose not to do it.

So you don't care about the immunocompromised people who might get sick or die? Or the subpopulation of vaccinated people for whom the vaccine just didn't take well?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#375

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:00 PM UTC

benmw333 wrote: post #117

pb7 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I care because despite being vaccinated and having had restrictions lifted, I am once again affected by them because of people that refuse to get vaccinated. If the consequences were siloed to unvaccinated people, I wouldn't care as that's their choice.

Those who chose not to get vaccinated are doing nothing to you.

This is the kind of thinking that resulted in measles starting to have outbreaks again.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#376

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:02 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #352

It saddens me to see that all the top comments on these posts are just some empty populist yelling, variations on "good, after all, there's a war going on". And counterpoints end up being strawmen about vaccines not working anyway. Whatever your end conclusion about whether this is a good move, it's a complex issue that balances a lot of things and is worthy of serious discussion. Instead we get basically an online n…

What are the complexities of the issues at play? It seems pretty straight forward that there is a global pandemic, and that there is a vaccine which significantly prevents the spread of the disease as well as ameliorates the worst symptoms. Requiring people to have the vaccine seems pretty straight forward, especially when "an exceptions process for those who cannot be vaccinated for medical or other protected reasons" exists.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#377

Post by dukeofdoom » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:03 PM UTC

Well, already job offers:

"If you work at Google or Facebook and don't want to get the mandatory vax you can always come and work for Gab. At Gab we respect your medical privacy and do not require an experimental non-FDA approved vaccine that doesn't stop you from getting Covid and includes other high risk side effects including death." Andrew Torba

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#378

Post by yupper32 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #230

yupper32 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what reason? Arbitrary control? Why does the right think that every government mandate that they don't understand (masks are the big one) are just about arbitrary control over people? It seems like a very common theme.

Why would they do it? They will do it because they are trying to save lives. They think they are doing harm by allowing people NOT to take the vaccine. After all, how many people will die by unvaccinated people spreading the disease? They have a duty to save other humans! That is what I think they believe. My problem is that this is an overstep. They should stay in their lane, rather than mandating the health of thei…

There's no reason to think they'll do this, though. You're just wildly speculating. The much more likely scenario is that they say "find a remote position at the company or leave".

And they're not so much "mandating the health of their workers", they're mandating that their workers don't harm other workers.

> If someone at Google died from drunk driving, would it be fair to ban alcohol?

If enough people got wasted at work and hurt other employees as a result, they'd probably think about limiting alcohol at events at the office. That's a closer example to this vaccination requirement.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#379

Post by spookthesunset » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

ubercow13 wrote: post #370

native_samples wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccinated people catch and spread COVID just like the unvaccinated. The vaccines don't seem to affect transmission at all. Consider Iceland. It has a highly vaccinated population (>70%, supposedly the herd immunity threshold), yet is now seeing a third wave of the same magnitude as prior waves anyway. It seems the cause may be that the vaccines don't create mucosal immunity like natural infection would. The vaccines…

>Why? Lockdowns have no effect on anything, it is proven beyond doubt these days. Plenty of studies show that now. What? https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)003... >Twenty-seven studies analysed the relation between lockdown and the reproduction number, case growth rates and cases, and 18 out them (67%) found an association with their reduction. Five studies found lockdowns to be the most effecti…

So explain why every single population adjusted chart of almost any metric out there looks identical to all the others. You'd be hard pressed to tell which graph is Florida and which is California.

If the only way you can possibly prove lockdowns work is some kind of meta study using fancy statistics and math in order to show any difference, it probably means even if it did work it wasn't worth the cost to society. If lockdowns were effective and worth the social cost I assert any fool off the street should be able to easily see the impact of restrictions. Thus far, that is impossible.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#380

Post by spookthesunset » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

Panther34543 wrote: post #156

Ugg, why doesn't anybody, whether it be government officials, employers, whatever, ever consider those with natural immunity? It's like some weird joke. The official CDC estimates over 115 MILLION natural infections in the U.S. alone, and that only accounts for February 2020-March 2021 . It doesn't account for all the infections before February 2020 (I and most of my coworkers in downtown SF got it in January) nor an…

> Yet, for some unknown reason, natural infection is NEVER talked about anywhere.

Because early on in the pandemic immunity became a political issue and those who suggested you could get immunity were seen as right-wing wackos. To this day there is some level of immunity denial out there.

Not to mention there is a vested interest to promote vaccines, which boosts revenue for pharmaceutical companies. Vaccine promotion is one of the reasons I think the CDC hasn't straight out said kids aren't at risk of covid. If they did, nobody would bother getting their kids vaccinated (because quite frankly they don't need to!).

I honestly think most of this crap doesn't make any sense and doesn't really add up because most of this is fueled by hysteria, non-stop fearmongering and politics. A small fraction of what we are doing is actually sound disease mitigation. The rest is just humans running around like chickens with their heads chopped off.