Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

axios.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 442 posts

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#291

Post by tome »

ericmay wrote: post #246
tome wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only guessing based on my personal interpretation of azangru, but I think the concern is delivery mechanisms that have never, or only rarely, been used before. Regarding evidence for "spooky things", well, by their nature there is no or little evidence for them. They are black swans and the means by which they are addressed is the precautionary principle. In particular, by their nature, there can be no evidence a…

> I think the concern is delivery mechanisms that have never, or only rarely, been used before. What is this concern based on? That it's new or rarely used? Why would you have prior concern one way or the other? > Regarding evidence for "spooky things", well, by their nature there is no or little evidence for them. They are black swans and the means by which they are addressed is the precautionary principle. In parti…

> > I think the concern is delivery mechanisms that have never, or only rarely, been used before.

> What is this concern based on? That it's new or rarely used? Why would you have prior concern one way or the other?

I didn't originate this conversation so I can't speak for the original commenter, but it seems to me it's worth pausing for thought when a billion people are due to receive a medical intervention of a type that has never been used before.

> This runs into the same problem. And it's even worse because you have a known risk (COVID-19) and a future, unknown and unquantifiable risk with no prior reason to believe such a risk exists and you're opting to defend against that risk instead.

I'm not opting to defend against that risk but nor do I think the calculus is as obvious as you are making out. On the one hand I am very, very glad the vaccines are available because they seem to be significantly suppressing infection numbers and keeping people out of hospital. On the other hand I believe that individuals should not be coerced by their employer into receiving a vaccine.

> Sure, but to be fair not a single one of these people ever questioned any other vaccine delivery mechanism they were getting. Questioning this stuff is new, and it's a deliberate disinformation campaign.

Which people? People have been questioning the safety of vaccine delivery mechanisms for at least 20 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMR_vaccine#False_claims_about...

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#292

Post by rolobio »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #218
rolobio wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get a job without a car. How soon until I can't get a job without modifying my body?

Some jobs actually do require a car, either explicitly or because no other form of transportation would be practical for an area. Since higher vaccination rates protect other people, I'm hopeful that vaccines become as mandatory as possible. That this bothers anti-vaxxers doesn't bother me, because why should it? I'm not more bothered by this than the vaccine requirement to enter public schools for kids.

I did not say any job, I said "a" job. Yes vaccinations will protect other people. Banning alcohol would protect many people, but its a violation of a person's rights to ban it.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#293

Post by summerlight »

h_anna_h wrote: post #195
OgAstorga wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so. Everyone is free to leave if the don’t like the new policies. It’s not like there is a tight market for highly skilled software engineers

This is a concerning argument. We have laws regarding labor for a reason. "I just decided to pay you below the minimum wage and not give you any days off" has not been considered acceptable for decades despite the employees being "free to leave if they do not like the new policies". Edit: I am arguing against the argument itself in general. Not specifically for the vaccine case.

> "I just decided to pay you below the minimum wage and not give you any days off"

That's a pure disadvantage against employees. Vaccine mandate is a bit different; it is about employee protection, especially for those subset who cannot get vaccines due to their health conditions.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#294

Post by ericmay »

tome wrote: post #276
ericmay wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take that as a no.

You're welcome to. However, I'm curious why your question is relevant. I can't articulate a scientific reason that thalidomide caused birth defects, for example.

> You're welcome to. However, I'm curious why your question is relevant. I can't articulate a scientific reason that thalidomide caused birth defects, for example.

You're admitting that you don't know or understand the science of either COVID-19 vaccines or thalidomide-caused birth defects (really it's going to be for lots of other medical things too let's face it), so why are you questioning only COVID-19 vaccines and not other things?

Why aren't you waking up tomorrow and saying smoking doesn't cause cancer? Why aren't you skeptical of that claim too?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#295

Post by rolobio »

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #211
rolobio wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get a job without a car. How soon until I can't get a job without modifying my body?

Some jobs require you to have a car (and a valid license, and an insurance policy). Others don't. Some jobs require you to work in close proximity with other people. Others don't.

These are good points. I suppose we will see how many other employers force their employees to be vaccinated, even if they are not in close proximity.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#296

Post by rolobio »

pb7 wrote: post #225
rolobio wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can get a job without a car. How soon until I can't get a job without modifying my body?

Probably around the same time you can shit yourself and walk around the office like that all day everyday.

If I shit myself, I would know about it and can do something about it. If I have a virus, but no symptoms, how can I prevent spreading?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#297

Post by dekhn »

endisneigh wrote: post #282
dekhn wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... you're willing to have millions of people die to protect some employees from having their employer knowing their medical history? From what I can see, companies are doing this to reduce their exposure to legal risk from employee-employee infection in the office.

> So... you're willing to have millions of people die to protect some employees from having their employer knowing their medical history? What's the point of this question? I never said that to begin with. > From what I can see, companies are doing this to reduce their exposure to legal risk from employee-employee infection in the office. This doesn't make any sense as vaccinated people can and do transmit the delta…

Yes, vaccinated people can get delta. But the risk is far lower. So much lower that it changes company's minds (as is clearly happening here).

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your comment about not wanting companies to normalize access to medical records. I made a two step inference as to what the implications of that were.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#298

Post by amrcnimgrnt »

tablespoon wrote: post #263
amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #240

I don't mean this polemically, or rhetorically. I'm honestly asking because I've given this some thought, and it's not entirely obvious to me. "Who are the unvaccinated hurting, exactly?" It appears to me that a pandemic of the unvaccinated harms the unvaccinated. "Those who cant get the vaccines" Now, some people will point out that some can't get the vaccines. Except that ppl with HIV, GBS, autoimmune etc are all e…

> "Who are the unvaccinated hurting, exactly?" My kids, who are too young to be vaccinated. I don't appreciate you being blase about their health. My father, who is quite possibly immunocompromised, and may not have acquired a strong immunity from his vaccine.

I asked honestly, and seriously. I want to be taught, explained to. Not given lip.

I take (strong) exception to be characterized as "blase". My kids aren't eligible for vaccination either. I can assure you Im not "blase" about their health.

You might want to look at the actual statistics of the harm of COVID for under 12. If that frightens you, that's fine, but then I would encourage you to look at other daily behaviors and their risks.

As to your father, you're right, he may have not acquired a strong response. However, the vaccines are, rightly, praised for being very effective. Including among people who are immunocompromised. As a society we take "accept" hypothetical small risks and will continue to do so until we ban cars inside cities (which I'm in favor of, btw).

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#299

Post by JeremyNT »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #130
hereforphone wrote: post #72

I am saying this as someone who has both shots and generally supports the vaccination. From what I understand Google is known as a company with a "liberal" culture. Is demanding employees accept one side of an argument and adhere to it (or face the consequences) contrary to the definition of "liberal"? That's the problem with Western politics. Liberal vs. conservative is no longer about how permissive we are with ide…

Who cares about liberal vs conservative? Trying to ensure employee safety is just the responsible thing to do for an employer.

Vaccination has, sadly, become a partisan issue in the United States.

We can't pretend that a reasonable appeal to public safety will work to convince people of the merits here, when there are so many politicians and entertainers who are successfully using opposition to the vaccine as a wedge issue to further their own selfish agendas.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#300

Post by pb7 »

rolobio wrote: post #296
pb7 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably around the same time you can shit yourself and walk around the office like that all day everyday.

If I shit myself, I would know about it and can do something about it. If I have a virus, but no symptoms, how can I prevent spreading?

You know about COVID and can do something about not spreading it: get vaccinated.
Post reply on HN