Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#231

Post by leereeves » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

m45t3r wrote: post #226

leereeves wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delta also presents a risk of breakthrough infection for vaccinated people. And that seems likely to lead to the development of new strains against which the current vaccines are ineffective, as the virus mutates in vaccinated people. I'm vaccinated myself, but I don't count on that providing protection for long. I expect it to be more like the flu, for which yearly vaccines are required against whatever strains are…

However there are many more studies of variations for vaccinated people than for natural immunity. It may be because the laboratories themselves are interested commercially for those studies, while natural immunity doesn't bring them any commercial benefit, but this doesn't change from the information we have right now. So TL;DR, it is just better to be vaccinated right now.

That TL;DR doesn't follow from the main paragraph, which simply says we don't know if it's better to be vaccinated.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#232

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #157

jkingsman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) is only relevant in terms of your health care provider(s) disclosing information. A company is completely free to demand proof of vaccination records xor refuse to employ you (and as long as they're demanding it from you and not your health care provider [without your permission], there is no precedent being set here and HIPAA doesn't even enter the picture). As a general rule of thumb (barring some…

interesting - I thought either HIPAA (thanks for the correction), FMLA or ADA protected employees from being asked about medical information that could result in they being discriminated against in regards to employment things.

> I thought either HIPAA (thanks for the correction), FMLA or ADA protected employees from being asked about medical information that could result in they being discriminated against in regards to employment things.

ADA does for some things, but not all things. Vaccination status is apparently not among them, though many of the things that would be involved in a medical reason not to vaccinate are.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#233

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

thisiscorrect wrote: post #197

_djo_ wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural immunity is not as well understood as vaccine response and longevity for COVID-19. There's also increasing evidence that newer variants like Delta present a significant reinfection risk for those who were infected with the wildtype or even Alpha six or more months before.

But there's also evidence it presents a significant risk for people who were vaccinated against the earlier variants too.

Agreed, it may well make sense to have people get boosters at some point.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#234

Post by benmw333 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

TheHypnotist wrote: post #175

benmw333 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is: government handing billions of us dollars to moderna, pfizer and janssen

Did you pay out of pocket for the vaccine? Also, trillions to save 600,000 lives? What does that even mean?

We are every day. Money supply - hello? Earth to major tom?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#235

Post by bastardoperator » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

kyruzic wrote: post #119

bastardoperator wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are fully tested with continued scrutiny. They have been given emergency approval and granted priority review. There is quantifiable fact and evidence that these vaccines are very effective and safe. Both of the mRNA vaccines are scheduled for full approval in Jan/Feb of 2022.

This is a lie. There is still testing going on to confirm their safety and effectiveness. Here is a list of them: https://www.pfizer.com/science/find-a-trial/search/BNT162b2/...

"continued scrutiny"...

In terms of efficacy and safety, the facts are undeniable. No medication is perfect. If you've ever seen an advertisement for medicine, many of them come without side effects that outweigh the risk of not taking the medication.

Depending on where you live, I'd look to the government, versus Pfizer's website for clinical trial details: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results/details?cond=covid

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#236

Post by some-guy » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #79

I'm shocked so many people on HN support this. The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)? I'm sure many people will respond to this saying "they don't need to turn over their full medical history!" but once we turn over a part of it, they will…

My enlarged prostate doesn't pose a risk to my co-workers--my immunization history does. There's a big difference.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#237

Post by freedomben » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

est31 wrote: post #93

freedomben wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some vaccines take years or even decades to show harm. See Air Force pilots and Anthrax vaccine history. Rare but devastating consequences. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the covid vax. I got Pfizer myself as soon as it was available. But there is still room for doubt.

Some viruses take decades to show harm as well, e.g. HPV, and there are theories that herpes is involved in Alzheimers. Maybe we'll realize in a couple of years that even asymptomatic covid harms your heart so much that affected people lose years of their lives? The vaccine seems like the safer choice to me.

Yep, excellent point. We don't know the long term repercussions of getting covid either, so avoiding the vax because of unknowns may end up being the riskier position.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#238

Post by Trasmatta » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

silicon2401 wrote: post #217

Trasmatta wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the amount of ridiculous anti-vaxxing statements in this thread, I'm beginning to think there may actually be a large contingent of software engineers deciding not to be vaccinated.

What do you find unreasonable about having concerns with taking a vaccine that was rushed through testing, using a technique that has considerably less historical evidence than other vaccines, and that didn't even meet the original definition of vaccine (at least in the US)?

The data overwhelmingly shows that the vaccines are safe and effective.

The data overwhelmingly shows that COVID has a high chance of either death or longterm complications.

I know which of the two I'm going to take my chances with.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#239

Post by hereforphone » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

TulliusCicero wrote: post #205

hereforphone wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's definitely the outer surface of the issue, you're right. Some issues have deeper things going on.

It's 'deeper' for the anti-vax community, for everyone else it's just a basic employee/public safety issue.

"Everyone else" is pretty broad and the kind of categorization I wouldn't expect from someone with an open mind

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#240

Post by amrcnimgrnt » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

I don't mean this polemically, or rhetorically. I'm honestly asking because I've given this some thought, and it's not entirely obvious to me.

"Who are the unvaccinated hurting, exactly?"

It appears to me that a pandemic of the unvaccinated harms the unvaccinated.

"Those who cant get the vaccines"

Now, some people will point out that some can't get the vaccines. Except that ppl with HIV, GBS, autoimmune etc are all encouraged by the CDC to get the vaccine. Children under 12 have ridiculous low rates of harm from COVID. So the folks getting hurt by not being vaccinated are the ones who chose to be unvaccinated. (I have a fairly serious auto-immune disease and it's not obvious to me that I should get the vaccine. Some of the reported side-effects are triggering my auto-immune disease. I'm waiting for my annual appointment my specialist next month to talk about this)

"Herd immunity to end the pandemic"

Another objection is that the pandemic will not end, we will not reach herd immunity, unless we vaccinate x amount of people. Except that it's not obvious to me that pandemic will ever end - we'll just co-evolve with COVID to be less harmful. The reasons being:

1. We'll never vaccinate Afghanistan or Central Asia in general, South Saharan Africa, etc. so COVID will never go extinct [1]

2. COVID-19, being a coronavirus, will likely evolve quickly out of our vaccines' scope. Furthermore, variants bifurcate so even if we can make new vaccines quickly, there will be too many variants to have to target.

3. Given points 1. and 2., heard immunity for a given country appears to be futile attempt.

4. Quickly vaccinating everyone before COVID bifurcates too much appears to be a fools errand. Anyway, you'd make more progress vaccinating the third world than trying to convince reluctant young people in the first world. In the third world the vaccines would be far more effective at stopping COVID's bifurcation (since they have a lot of young people who could safely be inoculated by getting the virus itself by removing all COVID restrictions)

[1] Not a dig at those countries, but a statement of fact based on the mistrust the central asians have since rich countries highjacked UN vaccination programs to advance their geo-political goals. Or poor quality vaccines/equipment that spread diseases amongst Africans.

[EDIT] While I am not vaccinated, I did sign up for a vaccine trial and was rejected. So please, try not to make this personal.