Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#121

Post by mrtesthah » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

ScoobleDoodle wrote: post #90

mrtesthah wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fact check: Nuremberg Code Addresses Experimentation, Not Vaccines https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/nuremberg-code-addresses-e...

This vaccine is still unapproved, meaning it's being used experimentally at this point. It has not been approved nor completed normal testing trials. Otherwise it wouldn't have had to receive emergency use authorization. > An Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) is a mechanism to facilitate the availability and use of medical countermeasures, including vaccines, during public health emergencies, such as the current COVI…

> It has not been approved nor completed normal testing trials. Otherwise it wouldn't have had to receive emergency use authorization.

That's false. The mere fact that a vaccine is EUA does not mean that it hasn't been tested. The vaccines available under EUA today have gone through exactly the same testing phases as fully FDA-approved ones. The only difference is that the phases were overlapping instead of performed serially. The link you reference already explains this.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#122

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:59 PM UTC

kook_throwaway wrote: post #87

beachy wrote: post #17

Anti-vaxxers are setting the stage for enormous profits for big pharma by creating the conditions for breeding new variants that will require more big pharma to combat them. I feel my grandkids will grow up in a world quite different from mine, where travel and experiences will be gated and limited by fear of contagious disease. That sucks and didn't need to happen. Thought experiment for anti-vaxxers - what if there…

If the vaccines prevent symptoms but not transmission, that sounds like a much better breeding ground for continued spread and mutation than folks that know they are sick and stay home because they are coughing or have a runny nose. The world isn't nearly as black and white as your 'punish the anti vaxxers' fanfic.

This is what is known as a leaky vaccine.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#123

Post by swader999 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:01 PM UTC

estebank wrote: post #89

akira2501 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. What is "much higher" in a number? > If one doesn’t take the vaccine there is a significant chance they give the virus to someone else, killing them. "Significant" would depend on their lifestyle, would it not? Are the rural unvaccinated as "significant" as the urban unvacinnated? > Civic responsibility isn’t brought up much these da…

>> one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. > What is "much higher" in a number? The analysis revealed that vaccination efficacy in terms of protection against deaths was equal to 72%, with a lower reduction of number of deaths for B.1.1.7 versus non-B.1.1.7 variants (70% and 78%, respectively). Other factors significantly related to mortality were arrivals at airports, mobil…

I heard they would just experience the same infection rates but at a later date than urban which seems to have played out for the rural community I'm in.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#124

Post by incrudible » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

gradys wrote: post #100

briefcomment wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> B. If one doesn’t take the vaccine, one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. But for a young person with no co-morbidities, that chance is still basically 0%. > C. If one doesn’t take the vaccine there is a significant chance they give the virus to someone else, killing them. Even if others have taken the vaccine themselves? Either that particular risk is negligible if the…

On the last point: 1) The vaccine isn't perfect, and herd immunity nonlinearly reduces the risk of everyone including the vaccinated from getting it. 2) Unvaccinated people, who make up the vast majority of the cases, create an environment for the virus to evolve within, possibly mutating into a form that is more dangerous to everyone, including the vaccinated

> The vaccine isn't perfect, and herd immunity nonlinearly reduces the risk of everyone including the vaccinated from getting it.

I would argue that the data now shows that herd immunity is not achievable with any vaccination rate. The vaccines just don't work that way, breakthrough infections are rampant.

> Unvaccinated people, who make up the vast majority of the cases, create an environment for the virus to evolve within, possibly mutating into a form that is more dangerous to everyone, including the vaccinated.

This is speculative. Vaccination-induced immunity is clearly not perfect, at the same it puts selection pressure on the virus. Natural immunity, going by reinfection rates, appears to be much stronger. I would speculate that in a population where 70% are vaccinated, where the amount of infections among the vaccinated is roughly the same, the virus is much more likely to mutate in the vaccinated individuals.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#125

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

estebank wrote: post #120

mrhands69 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the risk for people who are vaccinated? There should be some level of personal responsibility at this point. Everyone has had a chance to get the vaccine.

Not everyone can take the vaccine. Which is why everyone that can, should , for everyone's sake.

Ah yes, as soon as the world stops cultivating peanuts to accommodate my lethal (and heritable) peanut allergy. It should be a no brainer after all, with the nearly infinite other foods we have available as substitutes.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#126

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:03 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #30

beachy wrote: post #17

Anti-vaxxers are setting the stage for enormous profits for big pharma by creating the conditions for breeding new variants that will require more big pharma to combat them. I feel my grandkids will grow up in a world quite different from mine, where travel and experiences will be gated and limited by fear of contagious disease. That sucks and didn't need to happen. Thought experiment for anti-vaxxers - what if there…

They’d probably pivot to say that’s the risk of a free life. Live free or die is the mantra of many of them. Of course it’s their life which is free, not the people they infect. I loved your hypothetical device.

Do you believe we should require the flu vaccine every year?

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#127

Post by swader999 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #42

clairity wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfortable about society going down this path." it's dystopian. this is power that won't be reliquished by either major party, just like 9/11 surveillance and security theater. unlike some of currently fashionable political impetuses, this one is worth actively resisting, to keep federal powers in check.

> it's dystopian It's already the law , and has been for like half a century ( edit: more like 80 years, actually ). If you aren't vaccinated you can't attend school. You can't serve in the military. You can't work in many health care fields. We requires our citizenry to be vaccinated against major preventable diseases. We always have. And this policy is, objectively, the second[1] biggest success story in the last f…

The vaccine passport seems to be a whole other level of show us your papers though. It would have to be backed by a central database with scanning to really work. By definition you could be turned off or geo fenced with it.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#128

Post by estebank » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #123

estebank wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. > What is "much higher" in a number? The analysis revealed that vaccination efficacy in terms of protection against deaths was equal to 72%, with a lower reduction of number of deaths for B.1.1.7 versus non-B.1.1.7 variants (70% and 78%, respectively). Other factors significantly related to mortality were arrivals at airports, mobil…

I heard they would just experience the same infection rates but at a later date than urban which seems to have played out for the rural community I'm in.

Right, that's what experts were warning, while I saw multiple people in the relevant locales holding the idea I mentioned. Was this something you didn't see in your immediate area? It would be interesting to see if there was wide regional variation on whether people felt "it won't be as bad here".

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#129

Post by mrhands69 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #110

mrhands69 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can essentially get "long-covid" from the vaccine. Unfortunately, people are afraid to talk about it for fear of being labeled an antivax-er.

You'll, of course, cite a source? There aren't actually any virus particles in the mRNA vaccines, so there's no biological mechanism for that to happen.

I can get a source in a bit. IIRC it was the spike protein that causes some (still unknown) response from the human body. The mRNA vaccine elicit a response from the immune system to reproduce the spike protein.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#130

Post by myko » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:06 PM UTC

mnowicki wrote: post #113

programmarchy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leaky vaccines, like ones like the ones we have for COVID, also put evolutionary pressure on viruses. Anti-vaxxers are a convenient scapegoat, but the problem isn't that simple.

again, I got the vaccine and I'm not anti-vax, but why are people getting downvoted for making valid points just because they aren't following the popular narrative. Did this website become reddit? You can acknowledge someone made a decent point and incorporate it into your own views while still getting & encouraging vaccines - engaging in honest discussion will do more to prevent creating more anti-vaxxers than igno…

I imagine folks are taking issue with calling anti-vaxxers a scapegoat when in reality the anti-vaxx ideology is the main driver of hospitalizations and deaths from COVID-19 in the USA today.