Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#51

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #42

clairity wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfortable about society going down this path." it's dystopian. this is power that won't be reliquished by either major party, just like 9/11 surveillance and security theater. unlike some of currently fashionable political impetuses, this one is worth actively resisting, to keep federal powers in check.

> it's dystopian It's already the law , and has been for like half a century ( edit: more like 80 years, actually ). If you aren't vaccinated you can't attend school. You can't serve in the military. You can't work in many health care fields. We requires our citizenry to be vaccinated against major preventable diseases. We always have. And this policy is, objectively, the second[1] biggest success story in the last f…

You can attend school, just not public schools. Private schools are free to not require vaccines.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#52

Post by akira2501 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #37

Panther34543 wrote: post #11

In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfort…

Given that: A. Pfizer isn’t the only vaccine option. B. If one doesn’t take the vaccine, one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher. C. If one doesn’t take the vaccine there is a significant chance they give the virus to someone else, killing them. I think it’s the best option out of all non-great options to mandate vaccines in order to participate in crowded settings. It’s a ma…

> one’s chances of dying or being disabled for years or permanently are much higher.

What is "much higher" in a number?

> If one doesn’t take the vaccine there is a significant chance they give the virus to someone else, killing them.

"Significant" would depend on their lifestyle, would it not? Are the rural unvaccinated as "significant" as the urban unvacinnated?

> Civic responsibility isn’t brought up much these days.

Not everyone has the same idea of what civic responsibility should be, which is probably why we have to write and then enforce laws.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#53

Post by forz877 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

RONROC wrote: post #22

ohmyblock wrote: post #2

Pfizer shouldn't be allowed to state publicly their opinion on this. Huge conflict of interests

It’s incredible that we even have to state that. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth, full stop. I got the vaccine, and am shocked that I may need to comply with another dose or “booster” shots. I’m trying my hardest to be a team player but I’m incredibly concerned that one side would be OK with “Life-Saving-Vacinne-as-a-Service” for the low cost of x$ per month, for an unknown amount of time, and the other side is c…

You're "shocked" you might need a booster when people get a new flu shot every single year? Come on.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#54

Post by vetinari » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:32 PM UTC

nicoburns wrote: post #23

Panther34543 wrote: post #11

In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfort…

C and D seem fine to me. It's necessary to protect everyone else. A and B are the problem. The US government should have limited Pfizer's profit margin, and they should be using the money saved to cover people's medical costs for complications arising from the vaccine (removing the need to sue).

C and D... are you aware of Nuremberg Code, a set of principles created after Nuremberg trials?

If you are fine with C and D, you might find yourself in a company that most people would not like to be.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#55

Post by mnowicki » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

Panther34543 wrote: post #11

In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfort…

yeah, I'm very far from being right-wing or anti-vaccine or anything like that, but I've been unsettled by this whole thing. I don't think there are microchips in the vaccine, and it's probably a good idea to get the vaccine, but this level of control + lack of responsibility is a perfect recipe for negligence-caused disaster. Or even intentional disaster. Plus it seems quite a bit like it could be one of those slippery-slope situations.

Ideally, companies would create a vaccine as fast as possible(but safely, without being immune from lawsuits - especially if negligence or malice can be 'proven', why make someone immune from consequence then?) because that's always going to a profitable endeavor anyway. And people would be smart enough to get the vaccine and take precautions about spreading dangerous diseases. I don't know what the right solution is, given that we don't live in such a reasonable world

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#56

Post by trollied » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

newacct583 wrote: post #26

Panther34543 wrote: post #11

In summary: A.) Pfizer is raking in over $33 billion from vaccine sales. B.) Due to the PREP Act, they are completely immune from lawsuits arising from any form of complications arising from those vaccines. C.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may lose your job[0]. D.) If you don't take this vaccine, you may be barred from normal everyday social activities[1][2]. I can't be the only one who is incredibly uncomfort…

You're genuinely more uncomfortable with the idea of unfair liability protection than you are with the persistence of a pandemic that has already taken millions of lives? I mean, I think it's possible to agree that maybe the liability waiver is too broad (or that Pfizer's net revenue is too high) and... still view this as the most important single medicine released over the past few decades. I mean, come on. Literall…

Imagine if this pandemic was actually Smallpox? Pretty sure there'd be none of the anti-vaxxing stuff etc. Visible, horrible symptoms.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#57

Post by briefcomment » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

beachy wrote: post #17

Anti-vaxxers are setting the stage for enormous profits for big pharma by creating the conditions for breeding new variants that will require more big pharma to combat them. I feel my grandkids will grow up in a world quite different from mine, where travel and experiences will be gated and limited by fear of contagious disease. That sucks and didn't need to happen. Thought experiment for anti-vaxxers - what if there…

What if we built a device that could trace a particle from your car's exhaust and could tell you if that particle lodged itself in someone's lung at just the right moment to cause a stroke? Or how about a device that could trace the germs from when you skipped washing your hands for at least 20 seconds with a lather because you were late to your 1 on 1 with your boss, which then caused your elderly neighbor to catch an infection? Or what about sensors that could tell if your inadvertent non-intentional stink eye at someone with social anxiety was the trigger to push their mental distress beyond the point of no return? Or how about that coworker who you promised would be a hero for taking the vax, who then convinced their son to get it, who then contracted a heart issue soon after? Would you take responsibility for that?

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#58

Post by vetinari » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

k2enemy wrote: post #44

nicoburns wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C and D seem fine to me. It's necessary to protect everyone else. A and B are the problem. The US government should have limited Pfizer's profit margin, and they should be using the money saved to cover people's medical costs for complications arising from the vaccine (removing the need to sue).

I could not disagree more. Pfizer should be able to profit from the vaccine. If the govt steps in and takes away their ability to benefit from the vaccine what incentive is there for bio firms to respond like Pfizer did in the future? Why work on risky and expensive vaccine technologies if, in the unlikely event it is ever needed, you won't have a chance of recouping your costs?

> Pfizer should be able to profit from the vaccine

Government-mandated vaccine from a private supplier. What could possibly go wrong.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#59

Post by newacct583 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

slingnow wrote: post #50

newacct583 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's dystopian It's already the law , and has been for like half a century ( edit: more like 80 years, actually ). If you aren't vaccinated you can't attend school. You can't serve in the military. You can't work in many health care fields. We requires our citizenry to be vaccinated against major preventable diseases. We always have. And this policy is, objectively, the second[1] biggest success story in the last f…

Biggest success story? Have you heard about the delta variant and the surge in cases among both unvaccinated AND vaccinated?

I have not heard of a surge in cases among the unvaccinated, actually. Do you have a cite? All data I've seen points to a 90%+ effectiveness of Pfizer vs. Delta for infection, and it looks like more than 99% vs. death. It's MUCH MUCH MUCH safer to face potential infection with the vaccine than without.

Re: Pfizer says 2021 Covid-19 vaccine sales to top $33.5 bln, sees need for boosters

#60

Post by swader999 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

tylerhou wrote: post #40

gowld wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean to compare "loads" of "viral titers"? What is ADE? How does this square with the fact that the disease is making non-vaccinated people far more ill at far higher rates than vaccinated? The tweet says that vaccinated folks "could be carrying higher levels of virus than previously understood", not higher levels than unvaccinated individuals.

I'm not a biologist, so this is my rough understanding. ADE is antibody-dependent enhancement, a phenomenon that could occur when your body is exposed to a virus for a second time. Normally, your body has developed antibodies and therefore can fight off the virus easily. However, if the second infection is a different serotype, then (in rare cases) the body's antibodies might actually help the second virus infect you…

I'm not an antivaxxer, I did in fact receive one dose of AZ. All other vaxinations up to date. Flu shot almost every season.

The vague tweet above and the announcement yesterday from fauci about the titer levels suggest this is something to watch for because it could be ADE causing high or higher levels in the vaccinated. If it is ADE, this vaccine program would have to be halted.