Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#181

Post by ericmay » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

azangru wrote: post #100

ericmay wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Get the JnJ one then? 2) Do you have any evidence to suggest a risk with the mRNA delivery vehicle? If so, what is that risk and why will it materialize in some unknown amount of time instead of after someone gets the vaccine?

> Do you have any evidence to suggest a risk with the mRNA delivery vehicle? My point is, an appeal to history does not work when you are dealing with something new. By the way, how long have we had vaccines based on adenovirus vectors?

> My point is, an appeal to history does not work when you are dealing with something new.

I'm not appealing to history. I'm appealing to the science of creating vaccines. Do you take no vaccines? You could apply the same argument to the measles or flu vaccine. Nobody did until now.

> By the way, how long have we had vaccines based on adenovirus vectors?

Can you articulate in a scientific manner why an adenovirus would be treated differently as it relates to the creation of vaccines and the body's response to them?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#182

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #161

TulliusCicero wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. HIPPA prevents sharing info without consent. If you choose to give the info to your employer, HIPPA doesn't apply.

Well of course you do get to choose to waive your rights to hippa protections, you can waive any right you want. But you do not have to give your records and they aren’t allowed to obtain them without your consent. They’re also not allowed to “punish” you for failing to provide your health records. In this context, someone in the office may get promoted and someone WFH may think they deserved it. So they’ll sue on gr…

> Well of course you do get to choose to waive your rights to hippa protections, you can waive any right you want.

It's not waiving your right to HIPAA protections, because HIPAA protections literally do not apply in this scenario.

> 3028 - If my employer requires proof of my COVID-19 vaccination status, does that violate my rights under HIPAA?

> In general, the HIPAA Rules do not apply to employers or employment records. HIPAA only applies to HIPAA covered entities – health care providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses – and, to some extent, to their business associates. If an employer asks an employee to provide proof that they have been vaccinated, that is not a HIPAA violation, and employees may decide whether to provide that information to their employer.

https://www.hhs.gov/answers/if-my-employer-requires-proof-of...

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#183

Post by majormajor » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #157

jkingsman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HIPAA (not HIPPA) is only relevant in terms of your health care provider(s) disclosing information. A company is completely free to demand proof of vaccination records xor refuse to employ you (and as long as they're demanding it from you and not your health care provider [without your permission], there is no precedent being set here and HIPAA doesn't even enter the picture). As a general rule of thumb (barring some…

interesting - I thought either HIPAA (thanks for the correction), FMLA or ADA protected employees from being asked about medical information that could result in they being discriminated against in regards to employment things.

Yeah, it's not HIPAA, but employers are prevented from discriminating based on disability and required to provide accommodation for disability.

I'm not confident anyone could successfully win a lawsuit claiming refusing a vaccine is a disability worth protecting there.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#184

Post by ffggvv » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

mtoner23 wrote: post #112

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

Hippa only applies to medical professionals i believe. Employers can always ask for your medical records. This has always been the case.

so can employers for instance ask about HIV status and discriminate based on that?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#185

Post by yosefjaved1 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #79

I'm shocked so many people on HN support this. The only way I know to prove someone received a vaccine is for them to turn over their medical history. What if companies start refusing to hire someone because they have a bad medical history (insurance costs anyone)? I'm sure many people will respond to this saying "they don't need to turn over their full medical history!" but once we turn over a part of it, they will…

An employer requiring vaccinations prior to employment isn't unheard of in the US. It has been going on for several decades for workers in the education and healthcare industry as some of them have had to get vaccinated for chickenpox, measle, mumps, rubella, the flu, and other viruses as a requirement for employment at their respective organizations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3346210001

Also, what would be the next part after this? We would want to first evaluate that before allowing them access to it.

As for remote workers, I think that is a legitimate point and something companies should consider.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#186

Post by UncleMeat » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

jakebasile wrote: post #37

ollien wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, your body your choice, and also your employer your choice. I prefer to flip the script here: none of your coworkers chose to be subjected to someone who is unvaccinated, increasing their risk.

What other characteristics is it ok to use to determine who can earn a living or not?

If you want to get on the leftist anti-wage-slavery train you are welcome to join us, but I suspect that the number of antivaxx folks who are willing to actually make that leap is low.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#187

Post by pb7 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

jakebasile wrote: post #163

some-guy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their company, their choice. As an employee, I would very much enjoy the freedom _from_ COVID-19.

If you're vaccinated, and the vaccine works, how does an unvaccinated person endanger you so greatly that you feel the need to discriminate against them?

The variants all come from unvaccinated people. With enough time, a vaccine resistant variant could come around and infect vaccinated folks who are forced to be around you.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#188

Post by majormajor » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #161

TulliusCicero wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. HIPPA prevents sharing info without consent. If you choose to give the info to your employer, HIPPA doesn't apply.

Well of course you do get to choose to waive your rights to hippa protections, you can waive any right you want. But you do not have to give your records and they aren’t allowed to obtain them without your consent. They’re also not allowed to “punish” you for failing to provide your health records. In this context, someone in the office may get promoted and someone WFH may think they deserved it. So they’ll sue on gr…

> They’re also not allowed to “punish” you for failing to provide your health records.

Where are you getting this belief from? We literally have had vaccine requirements for various places for decades...

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#189

Post by boilerupnc » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

neither_color wrote: post #20

Whatarethese wrote: post #2

Good. Its time to stop messing around with this. The vaccines are tested and are safe.

I'm vaccinated and I personally don't care if others choose not to do it.

Other good reasons aside, I care because it can also affect how my work and risks become altered. I have friends in healthcare who live in divided teams - ones vaxxed and others not. The ones who are not - openly avoid and channel all Covid positive patients to the ones who are - under the pretense that they have better protection. That's unfair. Those who chose to vaxx didn't also sign up to carry increased exposure frequency and risk as a side-effect. This ominous behavior easily translates to other scenarios outside of healthcare. Retail workers who are vaxxed are steered exclusively to people facing roles because those are riskier. Travel necessary, let those who got vaxxed take those trips. Whether we like it or not, individual vaxx status affects us all since it influences behavior and decisions because of its effect on risk determination at the individual and collective level.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#190

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

sharken wrote: post #66

Whatarethese wrote: post #2

Good. Its time to stop messing around with this. The vaccines are tested and are safe.

The problem is not the vaccine by itself, it is that you no longer have a say in what happens with your body. I guess switching jobs is the only cure for this unfortunate trend.

Companies can mandate no smoking as a condition for entering their buildings. Is this also an example of the company having an unreasonable say in what happens with your body?