No-code startup Bubble raises $100M • Hacker News Board

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#261

Post by feoren » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:05 PM UTC

jimmy2020 wrote: post #83

feoren wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of software being written today is still CRUD applications centered on a database using a groupthink architecture where every noun gets a table and everything you ever want to know about that noun goes into that table. They're extremely brittle, completely un-reusable, and virtually un-maintainable. Meanwhile the front-end tech is iterating rapidly because we're at the very beginning of that sigmoid…

> Apps have been "building themselves" for decades: it's called a compiler. To your point, can I call the cement mixer a self-made building material that resulted in an accumulation of 4000-year-old of knowledge? Every known industry has different levels of production to reach the final product. Which may be a tool builder to automate the industry. Exactly the same way the building evolves to the prefabricated. The l…

I feel less like I'm asking to stop space discovery until we fix Earth, and more like I'm cautioning against the claims of crystal healing and homeopathy. I would have no issue with a well-conducted, good-faith research study into crystal healing -- after all, simply coating a surface in silver dramatically increases its anti-bacterial properties, so clearly some "dark-ages alchemy" level claims are actually true. But with our current priors, given a random claim about crystal healing, what is the probability it's backed by solid research vs. the probability it's quackery?

Similarly with no-code. Should we stop trying to build no-code solutions? No. In fact there are limited used cases where it goes well, such as the Blender material designer. But with our current priors and given a random claim about what some no-code solution will be able to do, the probability it's BS is very, very high.

Maybe that's actually the answer: the place for no-code is not in replacing general-purpose programming languages, but in small, limited-purpose DSLs like shader languages (and even then, only in specific contexts). SQL is an example of such a thing, so if someone came out and said "I have a great no-code solution that's meant to replace annoying repetitive SQL queries in a limit set of circumstances", I would take that person much more seriously.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#262

Post by vincentsaulys » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

bencollier49 wrote: post #258

bencollier49 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give us an example of one of the 30 apps (as per your website) so we can look at it?

Incidentally the only Bubble app I've seen online was mentioned in the Bubble FB ad: Revetize. It actually made me do some research when I saw the ad last week as it seemed so absurd. https://nocodefounders.com/interview/revetize-interview 0 results on the Apple app store, but there is an app on the Play store called Revetize with "10+ downloads". Perhaps that's it?

Bubble has a showcase section on their site: https://bubble.io/showcase

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#263

Post by foxbee » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:06 PM UTC

orcasushi wrote: post #254

Having myself used some no/low-code tools (service-now, mendix, outsystems), I do think they are the future, but... I think they suffer from their business model, which often aims complete vendor lock in to milk their customers as long as possible. This is currently their only way to earn back the hard invested money of developing such a tool. We need a, open source, community driven, no-code tool. Using existing too…

Shameless, shameless, shameless, plug here. But have you tried tools like:

Budibase (cofounder) - https://github.com/Budibase/budibase

Saltcorn

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#264

Post by a4isms » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

No-code environments are “Duck Programming:”

https://raganwald.com/2012/01/08/duck-programming.html

I’m much more interested in how they manage all the software engineering _around_ the low code than I am in the low code itself, e.g.

  - version control
  - testing
  - developing at scale

Which is not to say that the low-code tooling for single developers or extremely small groups is not interesting and valuable in its own right. It’s just that this other stuff is even more interesting if a tool is to escape a small (but still incredibly valuable*) niche of making prototypes quickly.

———

* Way back when, some of us used Hypercard to do low-code prototypes and mockups of apps. It was absolutely a good tool for iterating quickly on working prototypes, and Bubble could be that with high-fidelity today.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#265

Post by rchaud » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

masswerk wrote: post #177

I like the idea of "no-code boot camps". — Will there be no-code CS studies, as well?

Not sure if your tone is sarcastic. Does the existence of a bootcamp for Bubble negate its value?

Adobe Illustrator has a learning curve too; that doesn't mean that I should go back to coding SVGs by hand.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#266

Post by pictur » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

The most basic point of these tools is that they offer as basic things as possible. and in this way they can reach a real customer base. tech people's comments on this are often just "useless". yes, I don't think it will work either, but they can find customers.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#267

Post by Shindi » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:18 PM UTC

foxbee wrote: post #263

orcasushi wrote: post #254

Having myself used some no/low-code tools (service-now, mendix, outsystems), I do think they are the future, but... I think they suffer from their business model, which often aims complete vendor lock in to milk their customers as long as possible. This is currently their only way to earn back the hard invested money of developing such a tool. We need a, open source, community driven, no-code tool. Using existing too…

Shameless, shameless, shameless, plug here. But have you tried tools like: Budibase (cofounder) - https://github.com/Budibase/budibase Saltcorn

Thanks for being transparent. If someone mentions a problem, and you have the solution, you should be able to politely and gracefully plug it imho.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#268

Post by rorykoehler » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

bwaxxlo wrote: post #252

rorykoehler wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just looked through there website and I fail to see how it would be quicker or better than spinning up a quick rails app with a bootstrap template. Most of my time developing is thinking about the domain model and workflows. Once I've decided on that it takes a matter of minutes to code features and then you are not restricted in your ability to adjust and enhance after the fact.

I think there's a lot here that even as an experienced engineer I hate to start doing from scratch. Now combine that with time to focus on the business * Where to deploy? * Where to store the code? * Which library to send emails with? * Which 3rd service to send emails with? A long time ago I spent 2-3 weeks building something to do all the above. After completion, I started going to customers and realised those 2/3w…

If you can solve your issues with a google form then use a google form. I would never start a simple project as an app. All my coded projects are more complex than that. Some might be able to be done with no code tools but it would definitely be a pita to execute.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#269

Post by the_arun » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:23 PM UTC

foxbee wrote: post #263

orcasushi wrote: post #254

Having myself used some no/low-code tools (service-now, mendix, outsystems), I do think they are the future, but... I think they suffer from their business model, which often aims complete vendor lock in to milk their customers as long as possible. This is currently their only way to earn back the hard invested money of developing such a tool. We need a, open source, community driven, no-code tool. Using existing too…

Shameless, shameless, shameless, plug here. But have you tried tools like: Budibase (cofounder) - https://github.com/Budibase/budibase Saltcorn

Is this tool similar to Hugo?

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#270

Post by tootie » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

deeviant wrote: post #10

I think the biggest problem with this approach is at some point, they necessarily reach a level of complexity that it takes the same amount of time to learn how to use their "no-code" tools than it does to just learn how to code.

My read is that there is a big unmet need is small line of business apps. Things that are currently managed with awkward email/spreadsheet workflows that aren't worth an investment in custom development. No-code apps can automate these with much less cost and time. This will overlap a bit with what's currently being done by teams of specialists but it will mostly be a new market niche. That may change in a few years though.