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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#771

Post by greyhair »

mumblemumble wrote: post #468
tomxor wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM [.....] You simply can’t have this with socketed RAM. You make it sound like a prerequisite. I'm pretty sure the reason LPDDR is Low Power is not due to (currently) being unavailable in socketed modules - that would seem to be a side-effect of the original target market (smart phones). They are just some BGA packages, I see no reason they couldn't b…

I've never done anything beyond amateur electronics, so sorry if I'm way off base here, but it at least seems intuitively plausible to me that soldering the components to the board allows them to work reliably at lower power. With a pin and socket connection, you've got to try and be at least reasonably resistant to corrosion or other sources of less-than-perfect connection. That said, I don't know that RAM chips are…

Part of it comes down to signal drive strength.

If you design to a socketed DIMM package, you actually have two trace domains, the CPU to the socket, and the socket to the RAM chips. For that to be reliable, you have to adhere to standards for DIMM (or SODIMM) so that multiple manufacturers can build compliant interchangeable parts.

If you solder the chips down to the main board directly, you only have once domain for the traces, CPU directly to RAM. At that point you can tweak the design for several goals, speed, power, etc.. And you can tune the drive strength on the signalling the same.

That is how you end up with more efficient soldered designs over socketed designs.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#772

Post by oldandboring »

Aachen wrote: post #753
oldandboring wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I know that. I was hoping to see if he could tell at this point when they would ship with some specificity, eg. first week in August, end of August, etc.

Ah, sorry then I can't help you.

The question was for Nirav. You dropped yourself in with an unhelpful comment. I told you it was unhelpful and you have now confirmed that, correct, you cannot help.

:facepalm:

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#773

Post by ValentineC »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #763
ValentineC wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in a city without an Apple Store? MacBook battery service is $199 USD for their most expensive models: https://support.apple.com/mac/repair/service I paid exactly $288 SGD to get my battery replaced at the Apple Store here in Singapore.

I'm in Auckland, and there's no Apple Store in New Zealand. The $600 price is in NZD, too, which means $418 USD. It's not possible to replace only the battery - an AASP will replace the whole top case. I also think it's more expensive for older models, because the parts are not easy to find for a 2014 computer.

> It's not possible to replace only the battery - an AASP will replace the whole top case.

Yeah, this is true for Apple's battery service as well. I got a new keyboard and trackpad for the $288 SGD I paid.

> I also think it's more expensive for older models, because the parts are not easy to find for a 2014 computer.

This would only make sense if parts weren't ordered from Apple directly. I would imagine that they are able to as an AASP. Apple products only enter their vintage list after 5 years, and their obsolete list after 7 years: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624

In this case, it looks like the AASP would still be able to order parts for your 2014 MacBook without extra cost.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#774

Post by peterburkimsher »

ValentineC wrote: post #773
peterburkimsher wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Auckland, and there's no Apple Store in New Zealand. The $600 price is in NZD, too, which means $418 USD. It's not possible to replace only the battery - an AASP will replace the whole top case. I also think it's more expensive for older models, because the parts are not easy to find for a 2014 computer.

> It's not possible to replace only the battery - an AASP will replace the whole top case. Yeah, this is true for Apple's battery service as well. I got a new keyboard and trackpad for the $288 SGD I paid. > I also think it's more expensive for older models, because the parts are not easy to find for a 2014 computer. This would only make sense if parts weren't ordered from Apple directly. I would imagine that they ar…

The AASP got the part from Apple, but charged me 600 NZD and the parts look shanzhai (blurry printing on the cells, wrong PCB date code).

Apple Support confirmed the order number is a genuine Apple part. Makes me worry about Apple's own supply chain quality.

The AASP also did a pretty shoddy job at repairing: the case screws were in the wrong positions, and the logic board was seated badly so I couldn't plug in USB. I just spent an hour this morning reseating the logic board myself.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#775

Post by CRConrad »

ineedasername wrote: post #554
vimacs2 wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which you could also do by simply making the device a little thicker and have a battery run the entire width of the device. Point is past a certain point, thinness becomes more of a drawback than a benefit, especially given the trade-offs involved.

You might want that trade off, but consumers in general have been leaning towards thinner and lighter for years. Just look around at complaints about the thickness of early android watches being too big and chunky. Or the huge popularity when the first MacBook Air came out. Given the option between thicker w/ a bit more battery life or thinner and lighter, consumers are choosing thinner and lighter.

> ...consumers in general have been leaning towards thinner and lighter for years.

> ...consumers are choosing thinner and lighter.

A) I'm guessing actually lighter more than thinner.

B) Are consumers really clamouring all that intensely for "Thinner! Thinner!", or is that a) because that's all that's offered, and b) the relentless hype from manufacturers -- above all, bendy phone maker Apple -- amplified by rarely-critical media?

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#776

Post by peregrine »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #155
peregrine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any plans for AMD or ARM processor options? The amd ryzen stuff has nearly good performance per watt that the M1 does. I really can’t see myself buying another intel processor for at least a few generations.

You seem to be misinformed. Everyone loves to hate Intel (and rightfully so) but Tiger Lake has better IPC and implicitly better single threaded performance than Ryzen. In real world tasks (web browsing, opening an IDE) it often comes on top of AMD. It only loses to AMD in multi threaded benchmarks because of the lower core count (everyone loves to flex Cinebench scores online, but I buy my laptop to use, not run ben…

I am informed by my personal experiences. I had an core i5 laptop from 2019 vs r4800 from 2020 and the experience was night and day running arch linux. Just smoother running everything on the AMD. And my power usage was objectively less and my fans turned on way less subjectively.

A single browser tab is single threaded, but you REGUARLY are forced to run several electron apps, and have many tabs open. Each requiring processes and threads and ryzen blows it out of the water in responsiveness. It was not uncommon for some language-server running to lag out because some chrome shit was blowing up my cpu/memory, which drove me away from vscode again.

The intel is maybe better for gaming or other inherently single program stuff. But at the cost of using WAY more energy and sucking for everything else I do regularly.

Further the m1 macs make them both look fairly power hungry and laggy.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#778

Post by marilyn2 »

nrp wrote: post #181
marilyn2 wrote: post #177

This is great! Was about to order an XPS or Thinkpad but think I'll go with this instead! How many external displays does it support? Would I need thunderbolt (would that just be a $9 adapter???)? I'd like to connect at least 3 external displays (so 4 total screens including the laptop). Is that possible? Thanks!

You can use up to four displays simultaneously, so three external displays along with the internal display would work. You can connect monitors directly using USB-C (with DisplayPort Alt Mode), DisplayPort, or HDMI Expansion Cards, or you can connect them through a dock.

Will you be able to see different things on each of the monitors or will some of the displays show the same thing (e.g. mirrored mode)? Having multiple monitors is meaningless if they are just displaying the same thing.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#779

Post by javier2 »

heywherelogingo wrote: post #456
sydd wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its great, but I really don't understand why they cannot ship outside like 2 countries (?). Its always such a let down to see a company in 2021 that doesn't offer worldwide shipping, and sells its products just in the usual 2-3 countries (USA, Canada, maybe UK). At least give some FAQ with reasons or ETA when you will be shipping outside the US

Have to manufacture different keyboard layouts for one. That layout in the pics looks unpleasant to my UK eyes.

Don't have to, I'm from EU and want the US keyboard layout.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#780

Post by javier2 »

sydd wrote: post #421
victor9000 wrote: post #254

This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…

Its great, but I really don't understand why they cannot ship outside like 2 countries (?). Its always such a let down to see a company in 2021 that doesn't offer worldwide shipping, and sells its products just in the usual 2-3 countries (USA, Canada, maybe UK). At least give some FAQ with reasons or ETA when you will be shipping outside the US

Yes, I was sad when they wouldn't take orders to my country :(

I thought shipping was mostly handled by postal companies anyway?

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