No-code startup Bubble raises $100M • Hacker News Board

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#121

Post by mhitza » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:20 AM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #105

mrspeaker wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works best for prototyping and rapidly testing ideas. I joined a startup that didn't have any deep coding skills - but had a great idea and vision for a product. They had made a pretty decent prototype with Bubble and could quickly implement suggestions from the beta testers. When I joined I instantly suggested re-writing it in a "real" stack. But when I dived into it, there was a lot of built in features of Bubbl…

People (especially the kind that hangs out in HN) dont seem to understand that there’s a vast ocean of fairly smart people, much smarter than the average (or even above average) programmer, who are unable to build what they can imagine because of the coding bottleneck. I know many, and it’s not for a lack of significant effort that they are not able to learn to code in a way that’s meaningful. I suppose there’s somet…

> who are unable to build what they can imagine because of the coding bottleneck

Sounds to me like a generally applicable thing to be honest. Even as a programmer I can't just pick up my favorite language and use it for any type of software. There is mature/user-friendly infrastructure and libraries for X/Y targeting Z, for a limited set of permutations.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#122

Post by dmix » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:20 AM UTC

wyldfire wrote: post #46

Is Excel 'code'? If you answered 'No' considering cell formula expressions like cell references and arithmetic, does your answer change if you use functions? Flow control? Automata are automata. But, ok, sure, I get it. That's too abstract for the intended consumer. So what we are selling as 'no-code' is something that can allow you to preserve your identity as not-a-coder. Hmm. Scratch seems to be the language that…

I’d call Excel a database with a simple interface and relatively thin layer of optional coding that can be combined into very complex combinations that mimic programs. But a lot of programming is via building your own interfaces and input methods, whereas Excel is better for the computation (found in ‘backends’) and data science-y parts.

Data science type tools often only have the small group of people doing the complex computations themselves as users.

The final output in graphs and reports is what is consumed by non-experts and is again where Excel crosses paths with programming again, in a much easier and plug-and-play form than making your own charts/graphs (which in my experience is quite a challenging exercise code wise but again with way more freedom).

I’d imagine a spreadsheet with a form builder interface is the fundamental implementation of what Bubble is trying to do.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#123

Post by robfitz » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

eljimmy wrote: post #37

I had to use this for a client project once (per their request) a few years ago and as a developer it was an absolute nightmare. But I guess it's not meant for developers... There were so many quirks and limitations that I wouldn't ever recommend it to anyone. It's to app development what Macromedia Dreamweaver was to web development back in the day, except worse because you can't edit the code. I don't want to be ov…

You definitely can edit the code, but it's hidden within their plugin system.

If you're willing to spend 4-8 hours going through tutorials to understand their metaphors & setup, then you can find plenty of interesting ways to use it that are faster than "normal" coding.

But if you just jump right in on the assumption that your coding knowledge will carry you through (which is what I did the first time I looked at it and sounds like what you did as well), then you're going to have a bad time and end up without an accurate view of what it's good at, bad at, and where the trade-offs are.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#124

Post by motoxpro » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:25 AM UTC

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #68

motoxpro wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is that you don't need a "mature" product to make millions of dollars. It's similar to Shopify, I can put up a store in ~20 mins and start selling immediately. I would be extremely misguided to try to "build an platform" when that problem has already been solved. Same with no-code. Why code it from scratch when it's been solved already? If you want to go super deep, sure. Seems like the hate comes…

Lol, works as expected: “Your browser was unable to load some necessary resources, contact your IT network administrator and ask them to allow access to dhtiece9044ep.cloudfront.net dd7tel2830j4w.cloudfront.net/ d1muf25xaso8hp.cloudfront.net”

I'm not affiliated with either site. Just thought it was cool. I don't think one could argue that building an MVP/SMB on a platform is more buggy than a 1-2 man shop building from scratch, though. At least not in the same amount of time.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#125

Post by PeterisP » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:26 AM UTC

layoutIfNeeded wrote: post #66

_carbyau_ wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen simple things in Open Source Programs that I know I could track down and fix. Off by one errors, modulus stuff and such. Do open source projects have an obvious "run this script to configure your complete dev environment in respect to this project" ? I would be happy to spin up a new VM for every project on that basis.

>Do open source projects have an obvious "run this script to configure your complete dev environment in respect to this project" ? ./configure

If ./configure just would work for that project out of the box, that would be great, but it seems more like an exception, because usually it's not sufficient and it breaks on some dependency issues that are easily solvable if you know the dev environment and pretty much need mailing list assistance if you don't know how their project works and you just want to fix an off by one error.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#126

Post by dmix » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:27 AM UTC

redisman wrote: post #64

encryptluks2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is how I often feel about cloud providers like AWS. If you have to invest most of your time in becoming an AWS pro in order use it correctly, why not just learn how to build out a cloud using open standards.. at least that way you actually learned something useful, and not just a vendor solution that serves little purpose outside of its locked-in ecosystem.

Can you really compare these two without completely ignoring reality? With Bubble you can do some limited MVPs. With AWS you can deploy services to billions of people.

And AWS has a ton of crossover knowledge with using any open source operating system (not even just limited to servers but using Linux desktops) and plenty of other deployment systems both hosted and self hosted.

So your expertise is much more easily transferred in or out of AWS. Making the lockin argument less persuasive.

Compared to learning the complex interface of one app like Bubble for building ‘no code’ apps which only has some value to some junior programmers looking for basic expression of ideas to get them motivated and/or some limited mental analogies to the real work of programming.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#127

Post by random_kris » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:30 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #61

deeviant wrote: post #10

I think the biggest problem with this approach is at some point, they necessarily reach a level of complexity that it takes the same amount of time to learn how to use their "no-code" tools than it does to just learn how to code.

I hope with $100m they can solve this. I think the only way to solve this is to hard-code so many different use cases into the gallery of controls, workflows and repeaters etc. that anything you dream of is easy to build. They also need to invest heavily into UX and the ease of figuring out how to do something. I've used Bubble and similar tools, and they share something in common with coding - you need to watch/read…

To me java spring boot is a yes code platoform.

There is library basically for anything you can think of. Out of the box you get all the batteries you need

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#128

Post by dmix » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:32 AM UTC

vosper wrote: post #13

arthurcolle wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll have you know that CoffeeScript is still widely used! \s cries in legacy code

I'm right there with ya cries in not even Coffee version 2 . One day maybe it'll be a lucrative niche for contractor legacy-maintenance warriors. That'll happen before I convince senior management that startups with React and Typescript can run rings around us, and that I can't find anyone fulltime who wants to work on our stack (or has even worked in not-React)... If anyone wants to chime in with their stories about…

Warriors would be a good name for anyone working on legacy code like that.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#129

Post by dmix » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:34 AM UTC

robertwt7 wrote: post #7

The market is comparable to Wix? Divi from wordpress? Again, not sure how these companies last and compete where everyone else is learning how to code. I can't foresee a mature product that is achievable without coding, at all. I always thought companies that uses those builders will, at some point, move out from MVP and hire some coders. Well, I guess there're always market for everything.

HyperCard circa the early 90s?

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#130

Post by dmix » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 10:39 AM UTC

feoren wrote: post #65

nexuist wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because modern coding is still too low level to allow quick development of full blown applications. It would be really annoying if you had to tell a Subway employee behind the counter how to use their hands to pick up ingredients, how many ingredients to pick up, when to move the sandwich down the line, when to stop applying mayo etc. Instead we can just tell them to make a BLT sandwich and they'll do it with little…

Just like everyone who thinks no-code solutions are a good idea, you are fundamentally misunderstanding what programmers do. We're not assembly-line workers banging out code as the product. The assembly line is the compiler. We're researchers, engineers, and artists; the code is the design document. You're saying you'd like the sandwich maker at Subway to make you a brand new sandwich that has never existed before wi…

From my understanding the OP was addressing using English to code and how that might look at the fundamental level. Not critiquing or misunderstanding what software developers do day-to-day.

It’s instead about different layers of abstraction. Which is the world we work in as programmers and one normal languages meant for communicating to other people is ill suited for and would be way more overly detailed.