Launch HN: Atmana (YC S21) – An app to help cut down on compulsive porn usage

May I posit that, while they technically meet the definition of "pornography" in most dictionaries (and sometimes common use) that written erotic stories simply are in a different category altogether in many ways? Now, as a fair disclaimer, I personally have no moral objection to people getting erotic pleasure or stimulation from such media, in the abstract. I think it might actually be a net-healthy thing in some limited contexts.

But I do worry about how what sex acts are depicted as normal might scramble our interpersonal relationships. I worry about how implausibly beautiful people might damage our self-esteem. And the increasing integration into "endless scrolling" with a social aspect and the clicky-clicky dopamine feedback cycle is the death blow.

Most of these concerns are close to nil with an erotic short story, by comparison. To brutally chop this down to a simple idea: Monkey see, monkey do. Monkey think abstractly through imagination, monkey imagine but not see and so not do.

After all, don't you think it's telling that, while teen girls are hooked on the image-pornography of fake stardom lives on Instagram, and teen boys are hooked on OnlyFans content and half-clad Twitch streamers, that there is (to my knowledge) no epidemic of compulsive erotic story writing and reading to go with it? Oh, I'm sure some people do spend 12 hours a day at that, but it seems not to tickle our brains in quite the same way. Such things are merely sporadically titillating, not horrifically and compulsively addictive, at least for the typical person.

There are definitely groups out there pushing a religious or prudish agenda.

I'd like to offer my own anecdote, as a completely secular person whose lifestyle would probably invite condemnation, if not horror, from e.g. LDS. I won't describe exactly why they might feel that way, but let it suffice to say that I have spent non-trivial time around people who have done what some call victimless crimes, among other and more legal behaviors.

I find that I feel better emotionally and perform better professionally (and academically, when I was in school) when I refrain completely from this vice. I also find that I have much less intrusive thoughts of the sexual variety, especially at inappropriate times about inappropriate people.

I understand your concern that pseudoscientific and/or religious groups might be exerting this influence. I just wanted to give an example of the opposite.

See these videos [0] [1] where people in the gaming community (which in my experience is very often agnostic, if not atheist) have essentially a group coaching session with a psychologist for their undesired relationships to porn. Very rarely do they mention religion, but quite often do they mention emotional distress, life difficulties, social struggles, and difficulty stopping a behavior they find distressing. Whether or not it's an "addiction" (and scientific discussions related to the debate) I find irrelevant -- they personally wish they could stop and have trouble doing so.

I appreciate your efforts to, as I perceive it, point out potential sources of bias or misinformation. I just wanted to offer a totally secular view of the benefit of and reason why an app like this might have funding and a market.

[0] https://youtu.be/e1ndqAkiQZo

[1] https://youtu.be/lUVeUSIlQiI

There is better unbiased sources for science, and the best is simply the medical definition in DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition) or ICD-11 (eleventh revision of the International Classification of Diseases).

There is no addiction or compulsion unless the person is experiencing direct negative consequences to one's physical, mental, social, or financial well-being. I.E, no professional following a medical definition would touch a diagnosis of pornography compulsion unless there is clear documentation that the viewing has been causing negative consequences for the individual. Most likely they would not diagnose anything related to porn usage at all since neither the international standards nor World Health Organization recognize the diagnosis.

What a lot of people also try to imply is that all porn usage causes negative consequences. It is a bit like the prohibition tactic implying that any alcohol consumption causes alcoholism and significant bodily harm. Naturally we won't find a study saying there is no correlation between alcoholism and alcohol consumption, and some of the studies is likely to imply that consumption of alcohol may cause alcoholism. What the more insightful studies show is the risk factors that makes a person more likely to become addicted or get compulsions and what factors gives protection against it. The usual finding in such studies are environmental factors rather than simply consumption.

"Helping Millennials overcome digital additions"

A lot of millennials go visit their parents and see the parents could use this even more as the parents lack the social reinforcement to standardize or smooth out behaviors. (While younger people may have equally problematic social reinforcement that enables behaviors)

Do you think your messaging can incorporate a broader audience?

Like, an older parent or person might see your site as just validation of millennial problems, while seeing no introspective duty for themselves.

"Whatever you do, NEVER try cold turkey quitting any chemical, at least not before seeing a doctor."

This is terribly wrong information, to the point of causing more harm to people who take it seriously.

The ONLY common addictions that can possibly hurt you physically in withdrawal are Alcohol and Benzodiazapines (Valium, Xanax, Ativan, etc) and a family of related, common tranquilizers). And even then, you have to be a daily user to be at risk of harmful withdrawal... Unless you are actively getting drunk to avoid withdrawal symptoms, you are NOT in this risk group.

It is NOT possible to physically hurt yourself by cold-turkey quitting caffeine, nicotine, cocaine, amphetamines, MDMA, hallucinogens, or opiates. You may feel like you're gonna die, but you simply cannot hurt yourself due to quitting these substances. Mostly, you'll just be uncomfortable.

This distinction is REALLY important, because the fear of withdrawal (and life without a fix, generally) is already hugely terrifying to addicts who realize that they have a problem. But many (too many!) of these people have no access to a trusted doctor, and fear judgement, legal consequences, or termination of care if they seek medical help.

Please correct your comment, and stop feeding uninformed myths that have zero medical basis. Educate yourself before you give people any more advice on how to deal with chemical addictions.

(FWIW, I'm not a doctor, but I've spent plenty of time in 12-step meetings, and used & quit plenty of drugs.)