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PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

dell.com

261–270 of 281 posts

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#261
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating is much more energy intensive than cooling (unless you have a heat pump, aren't particularly common in the U.S). Air conditioning consumes a lot of electrical power in comparison to heating, but if we're counting overall energy efficiency it seems like darker, colder northern climates should have a disadvantage.

heat pumps aren't common in the US?

I think it varies a lot regionally

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#262
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because it’s cool to break the rules? Does it matter to you that these rules are trying to protect our civilization from dissolving in a heap of wildfires, floods, power outages, droughts, storms, etc? This stuff is not just hypothetical any more.

You probably waste more electricity running your dishwasher instead of by hand than running a laptop. If battery usage is a problem because of climate change, then tax carbon and you can decide to cut back or pay more on dish washing, food deliveries, big houses with huge heating cost and the like, and everyone who wants a cool laptop can spend their money (or carbon credits) on that. If that's what's bothersome, the…

Probably worth the electricity to conserve water in California.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#263
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not going to get into the laptop discussion but the wildfires are 100% due to heat and drought, and those are much worse recently because of global warning. PG&E could bury ever cable, they could increase the fire prevention budget by 10 times over, and it wouldn't fix it.

You're saying that the wildfires are 100% caused by heat and drought? I think you should have a look at the huge heap of evidence pointing to poor forest management being the true culprit. It's a fact of nature that forests WILL burn and the more humans interfere with nature, the more unintended consequences we'll cause. There are plenty of natural ignition sources and forests are equipped to deal with relatively low…

No, nothing is ever "100% caused by" any one thing, but it seems dishonest to act like there's no discernible link between record wildfires and record heat and drought.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#264
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a user misconfiguration issue to me. I've never had an issue keeping a device from going to sleep when it's... actively doing something... like running services.

It occurred in both Windows and Ubuntu. In Windows “Never” wasn’t an option for Sleep (edit; I forget if it wasn’t an option or selecting it didn’t work), in Ubuntu the usual disable sleep commands didn’t work. Someone in the Ubuntu forums suggested there was a recent power management change due to EU reg and the code around it was freshly buggy. I spent a day on it before cutting my losses.

Even in the case where this were really true there are programs like "Caffeine" which will fool your machine into thinking it's not idle.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#265
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All that the rules say (yes, I read them) is that a workstation with 32G RAM (formula is 10 + 0.03 * RAM_GiB) must not exceed ~ 11W in sleep mode and a desktop with 32G RAM must not exceed 6W in sleep mode (5 + 0.03 * RAM_GiB). That's it? The rules only mandate maximum power consumption for sleep mode? Some comments linked to the actual regulations[1], and they seem to contain tables with per-year maximums per devic…

What's the definition of "measured annual energy consumption"?

It is based on the Energy Star energy consumption criteria. The formula is: 365*24/(1000)*weighted_average_power_consumption (the division appears to be due to using unitless formulas, and wanting a result value in kWH).

The weighted average power consumption is based on measured power draw in the following states: "off", "sleep", "Long_idle", and "short_idle". Most desktops under the California rules will use the "conventional" weighting factors of (45%, 5%, 15%, 35%) for the respective power modes in that average.

Short idle is basically what you expect. Screen is still on, drives are still spun up.

Long Idle allows basic power saving features to have kicked in (like spinning down hard drives), and assumes the screen has gone blank, but that the computer is still in ACPI G0/S0, not in some form of sleep mode.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#266
post #87
post #5

Anyone know the actual rules? Is it a hard limit on the amount of power a home computer can consume, or is it something more subtle like a limit on the power when its idling?

From the fact sheet I found it’s mostly making sure the OS is configured for sleep by default and a minimum 80+ gold rated PSU if you have a 600W+ unit. Knowing Dell, it’s probably the power supply not meeting 80+ gold efficiency. EDIT: I guess there’s max allowed power during ACPI S3 state as well. 10.3W max for a system Not that it matters - nobody should be buying any of Dell’s Alienware desktops. The chassis prov…

Is DDR4 refresh only usage power really that high?

Regardless, the standard is that the sleep mode must be ACPI S3 or if it is not S3 it must meet the stated power criteria criteria, (and for most desktops the limit is only 5W if under 32GB). I'm not sure why an S3 sleep is good enough to not need to meet the specific limits.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've allowed politicians to get away with a lot of bullshit, but if they come after my PC and homelab, it's time to water the Tree of Liberty. Are we advocating for murder on this site now? Really?

You don't have to like it, but the right of the people to rise up against an oppressive government is a founding principle of the US. That sentiment was all well and good back in the 18th and 19th century. But in the next civil war, the Mason-Dixon Line will run through your and my back yard.

I am going to be honest. I think the overlap between people for whom PC energy regulations are the last straw and people willing and able to go through the privations a civil war is sure to bring, particularly to the combatants, is pretty small.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#268
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are incandescent bulbs illegal?

Many countries have passed laws to phase out incandescent bulbs, including the US (in 2007) and the EU. [1] Though the laws typically have many exceptions and take effect over time, so saying “incandescent bulbs are illegal” is a somewhat strong statement. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_ligh...

In many EU countries those light bulbs are being sold as space heaters. I know that chicken coups definitely use them as such.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#269

These overzealous "green" regulations crack me up. Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-green-energy: I think my own country should stop building coal power plants and start investing heavily in solar and wind. However, a lot of these consumer-targetted rules are just ludicrous bureaucratic overreach that cause more issues than they solve. A quick example: My apartment block was just "upgraded" to meet some new energy-ef…

A cynical take on these regulations is that they're a power grab by the CA and WA based big cloud vendors since users of powerful workstations will effectively be forced to offload their workloads to the cloud or buy a server if they want high performance with commercial business support. Well as it turns out, CA/WA is only a minority player in the desktop market, but they're significantly bigger in the cloud/server markets.

Netflix 4k isn't illegal despite being a completely frivolous use of electricity, but somebody professionals buying their own workstations is. Datacenters use 1% of power usage globally, the focus is on desktops.

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