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Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

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Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#41

Post by simonh »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #23
vagrantJin wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> while it might not be PC to say so, this could be a constructive thing That's called euro-centrism isn't it. And every westerner believes wholeheartedly that it is the best most constructive thing to do. So it is neither right nor wrong politically. But it does dull the world when every place you go to is Europe in microcosm. That is a true vision of dystopian hell itself.

Nobody pressured Turkey (or Russia, in the era of Peter the Great) into trying to become more like Europe. They chose it on their own. If you're going to say that their choice was wrong, that would be rather paternalistic, don't you think?

I don't think an authoritarian leader dictating cultural norms is really the same as a country 'choosing' it on it's own.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#42

Post by sonthonax »

nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut wrote: post #34
soperj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

The west industrialized without gulags.

‘The West’ industrialised with slave plantations and child labour.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#43

Post by c-smile »

shrubble wrote: post #36
soperj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

The 60 million people killed during the Bokshevik reign are unavailable for comment, however.

That's exaggeration of course. Many but not THAT many.

Story from my step-grandfather:

He was a village school director and teacher in Ukraine at times of 1932/33 famine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1932%E2%80%93...). With students from senior classes he developed piece of farm land just to feed junior classes - make real breakfast at list for them.

Each day he walked to school with knapsack - prepared for detention, as all agricultural surplus should go to collectors. All that was real, indeed.

...

At WWII, he served as an artillery lieutenant, literally walked by foot from Voronezh/Russia to Berlin/Germany. They were crying "for the Motherland, for the Stalin" all way along. And that one was also real.

Later he was a father of an academic and two doctors of science in USSR.

History is really not that black and white.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#44

Post by cmrdporcupine »

trident5000 wrote: post #10

As someone with a beard, I just cant imagine shaving every morning. Seems like a huge pain in the ass and waste of time. You do you if thats your thing though.

I find shaving pleasurable. Something about the ritual and the smoothness and clean feeling sensation of my face afterwards.

That said, I often grow a beard during ski season. Because I just enjoy the mountain man look to go with my telemark skiing, winter clothes, accompanying border collie covered in snow, and beer belly.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#45

Post by SuoDuanDao »

cafard wrote: post #21
trident5000 wrote: post #10

As someone with a beard, I just cant imagine shaving every morning. Seems like a huge pain in the ass and waste of time. You do you if thats your thing though.

In the days before the safety razor, not that many men shaved every day. Supposedly it was WW I that created the daily shaving habit in the US. Before that, it was common to be shaved by the barber.

That seems plausible - being able to wear a gas mask with a tight seal was a matter of life and death in WW1. When a habit like that can save your life, I don't imagine you'd be quick to give it up after returning home.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#46

Post by wccrawford »

trident5000 wrote: post #10

As someone with a beard, I just cant imagine shaving every morning. Seems like a huge pain in the ass and waste of time. You do you if thats your thing though.

As someone who shaves... Yeah, that's pretty much exactly how I view it.

I tried growing a beard for a while, but I found that it was itchy, and anything I did to try to alleviate that was as much work as shaving, or even more.

Recently, I switched electric razors again and it's a lot quicker and easier than the ones I'd been using (for like 5-7 years), and it's back to "meh whatever" category again instead of "Ugh, do I have to do this?"f

Someone said it takes less time than brushing their teeth, and that's not quite true for me... But my electric toothbrush says I should brush for 2 minutes, and my electric razor says I should spend less than 3 minutes shaving so I won't irritate my skin, so it's pretty close to that.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#47

Post by rolleiflex »

simonh wrote: post #40
hereforphone wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS - Excellent second paragraph, you're right - but I've been hearing that "this is the critical moment" for years. Are in in Turkey now? Where?

The attempted coup was certainly a critical moment as well. It was passed when it became evident many of the protesters fighting back against the coup were political opponents of Erdogan. Hopefully that's settled one particular question - no more coups, even if it's against your political opponents. The coming election is I think another legitimately critical tests. It's not great that Turkey faces multiple critical…

Turkey’s adolescence is full of trials indeed. Hopefully one day we’ll be able to look back at this and call it life experience.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#48

Post by c-smile »

nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut wrote: post #34
soperj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

The west industrialized without gulags.

Oh, really?

What about plantations? Who worked there? Sigh, under each stone of European squares you can find 1kg of gold that came from the "third world".

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#49

Post by etc-hosts »

nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut wrote: post #34
soperj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

The west industrialized without gulags.

The West didn't have land hungry pre WW2 Germany next to it.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#50

Post by c-smile »

988747 wrote: post #22
soperj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

You must ask yourself a question here: did they accomplish all of that because of the socialism, or despite it?

Idea was good. Socialism works quite well at critical times.

Just in case: pretty much each country, including US, handles COVID problem in typical socialistic state way.

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