Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims • Hacker News Board

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#51

Post by cik » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:14 AM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #25

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical v…

It's more than that. Part of it is army training, but a giant part of it is organizations like ZAKA (https://zakaworld.org/) whose mission comes from our core religious beliefs. As Jews, we're ideally buried fully - meaning as many body parts, blood, whatever intact, or at least with the body. In situations where disasters occur, ZAKA helps triage, recover, identify, and even do DNA analysis as needed, to help make this happen. This is in addition to training our security services.

In Israel, regardless of political affiliation, religious beliefs or anything else, they're understood to be the true heroes that they are. No one else exhaustively pursues these events to conclusion. There's a reason that their mantra is חסד של אמת, which is best translated as true lovingkindness. Yes, in Hebrew lovingkindess is a concept that is different than "loving kindness".

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#52

Post by tolbish » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:20 AM UTC

wumpus wrote: post #14

tolbish wrote: post #11

Very interesting! Does anyone have more information on how they were selected? It's not exactly a local operation.

A bunch of missing residents belonged to the same synagogue. The IDF unit was one of several international search and rescue teams to volunteer.

Yes, but how were they selected?

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#53

Post by aaron695 » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:21 AM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #25

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical v…

> at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission

It almost always takes a nation (Like IDF) to collapse a building. Second thought would be they have no direct experience.

They are however prepared. And like most altruistic.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#54

Post by tguvot » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:24 AM UTC

cik wrote: post #51

mym1990 wrote: post #25

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical v…

It's more than that. Part of it is army training, but a giant part of it is organizations like ZAKA ( https://zakaworld.org/ ) whose mission comes from our core religious beliefs. As Jews, we're ideally buried fully - meaning as many body parts, blood, whatever intact, or at least with the body. In situations where disasters occur, ZAKA helps triage, recover, identify, and even do DNA analysis as needed, to help make…

With all respect to ZAKA, and I have a lot, they don't really have much to do with this unit. This unit is search and rescue (if possible). Zaka is "body (parts) collection"

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#55

Post by cma » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:31 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #43

robertwt7 wrote: post #38

>Israeli team has fewer members so they learn to be 'small and swift' It is amazing to see how they work to save those people, at the same time terrifying to think how they got those experience with all those never ending wars throughout their lifetime. Salut to the team for helping those in grief. Also from wikipedia: >Distinct from possible construction defects, an analysis of European Remote-Sensing Satellite data…

So about 2 inches. Is that enough to cause a collapse? I don't know enough to answer this question, but I would hope that buildings are engineered to handle at least a couple inches of sinking. My house in the hills has 2-3 inch variations after 70 years of existence, but admittedly it's not a high rise building.

If the whole building sank that much there might have also been bigger variations.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#56

Post by hn_talmudist » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:34 AM UTC

cik wrote: post #51

mym1990 wrote: post #25

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical v…

It's more than that. Part of it is army training, but a giant part of it is organizations like ZAKA ( https://zakaworld.org/ ) whose mission comes from our core religious beliefs. As Jews, we're ideally buried fully - meaning as many body parts, blood, whatever intact, or at least with the body. In situations where disasters occur, ZAKA helps triage, recover, identify, and even do DNA analysis as needed, to help make…

> There's a reason that their mantra is חסד של אמת

It's simpler than you're making it out to be - "ḥesed shel emet" (true kindness) is based on the Talmudic idea that the truest kindness is that done for the dead, since they can't ever pay you back.

Also ZAKA is not related to the IDF or this mission.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#57

Post by alisonkisk » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:38 AM UTC

cik wrote: post #51

mym1990 wrote: post #25

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical v…

It's more than that. Part of it is army training, but a giant part of it is organizations like ZAKA ( https://zakaworld.org/ ) whose mission comes from our core religious beliefs. As Jews, we're ideally buried fully - meaning as many body parts, blood, whatever intact, or at least with the body. In situations where disasters occur, ZAKA helps triage, recover, identify, and even do DNA analysis as needed, to help make…

> Yes, in Hebrew lovingkindess is a concept that is different than "loving kindness".

What's the difference?

Also, lovingkindness is an English word , not Hebrew. Chesed shel emet is three Hebrew words.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#58

Post by deviledeggs » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:39 AM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #25

Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. I can't imagine all the horror that those volunteers may have seen through their lifetimes, and they find a way to use that experience to help others thousands of miles away. I can imagine that for a typical v…

This was partially a PR move. Surfside is over 1/3 Jewish and a large number of Israelis lived in the building.

Not saying it's "bad" at all for Israel to send in experts. But it's important to realize that governments selectively help people in other countries for political reasons sometimes.

Would they have sent in their experts if the building was full of Palestinians?

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#59

Post by pram » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 6:44 AM UTC

mellow-lake-day wrote: post #48

colordrops wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So about 2 inches. Is that enough to cause a collapse? I don't know enough to answer this question, but I would hope that buildings are engineered to handle at least a couple inches of sinking. My house in the hills has 2-3 inch variations after 70 years of existence, but admittedly it's not a high rise building.

It may have contributed to it but in this case the bigger problem was an error in the construction of the building: > In 2018, an inspection performed by the engineering firm Morabito Consultants showed a "major error" in the construction of the pool deck, whereby the waterproofing layer was not sloped. Water that collected on the waterproofing remained until it could evaporate. Over the years, the concrete slabs bel…

Wow that video is crazy

https://abc7chicago.com/florida-collapse-video-miami-condo-t...

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#60

Post by cik » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 7:04 AM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #54

cik wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than that. Part of it is army training, but a giant part of it is organizations like ZAKA ( https://zakaworld.org/ ) whose mission comes from our core religious beliefs. As Jews, we're ideally buried fully - meaning as many body parts, blood, whatever intact, or at least with the body. In situations where disasters occur, ZAKA helps triage, recover, identify, and even do DNA analysis as needed, to help make…

With all respect to ZAKA, and I have a lot, they don't really have much to do with this unit. This unit is search and rescue (if possible). Zaka is "body (parts) collection"

Since when has ZAKA not trained with, and trained search and rescue? After basic, and initials there's are courses with ZAKA. ZAKA wasn't the provider of service, just of training.