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Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

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Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#41

Post by andreskytt »

lostlogin wrote: post #34
tguvot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. Actually they don't really have similar "field experience" from Israel (fortunately). They do have a bunch of training with artificially made piles of rubbles and whenever something happens somewhere in the w…

Watching and reading about the teams arriving in Christchurch, New Zealand after the earthquake that happened there was really impressive and inspiring. Countries that seemed far away and uninvolved had teams touching down at staggered intervals and brought resources and skill that really helped. International search and rescue seems to be a little world of its own that operates away from the noise and bickering of ‘…

Because everyone benefits. The helpers get first hand experience, the helped get rapid scaleup of capabilities. Nobody’s interested in messing this up as everybody knows they might be next. This is the sort of positive feedback that keeps the world turning.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#42

Post by bawolff »

vxNsr wrote: post #22
gaze wrote: post #10

why are the IDF there?

Miami has many Israeli expats, this building specifically had many dual Israeli-American citizens and the family and friends of the victims called for the IDF to come help, the governor, and mayor ok-ed it so they came. Many countries have disaster recovery teams specifically tasked with assisting in international catastrophes, the Israeli one happens to be a division of the IDF, probably for budgetary reasons.

I think its fairly common to have disaster recovery as part of the military, and to have them help in foreign countries when disaster strikes. E.g. canadian military helped out in usa during hurricane katrina

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#43

Post by colordrops »

robertwt7 wrote: post #38

>Israeli team has fewer members so they learn to be 'small and swift' It is amazing to see how they work to save those people, at the same time terrifying to think how they got those experience with all those never ending wars throughout their lifetime. Salut to the team for helping those in grief. Also from wikipedia: >Distinct from possible construction defects, an analysis of European Remote-Sensing Satellite data…

So about 2 inches. Is that enough to cause a collapse? I don't know enough to answer this question, but I would hope that buildings are engineered to handle at least a couple inches of sinking. My house in the hills has 2-3 inch variations after 70 years of existence, but admittedly it's not a high rise building.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#44

Post by slim »

This is suprisingly interesting. They use a 3D model to geographically identify each sub-unit of the original building in the rubbles. Then they gather intelligence on clues in each unit to confirm their data and adjust their model accordingly. Doing this they are able to improve precision and identify smaller units in the rubbles (ex. identify each room within a house).

It's really an intelligence unit with the added capacity of excavating and moving rubble. I can see the usefulness of this for an army. Buildings, especially buildings targeted during conflicts, contain precious and strategical objects and information. Being able to recover them is crucial.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#45

Post by EdwardDiego »

Bless this team. In my life, I've realised (via harsh experience) how necessary a body is for healthy human grieving.

I'm not entirely sure why, my gut feeling is that it's something primitive in the human animal, but I've witnessed it enough to respect the effort SAR teams put into body recovery.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#46

Post by mellow-lake-day »

gaze wrote: post #10

why are the IDF there?

I think it's standard practice for one's military to help another country for example the Mexican military came to America to help during Hurricane Katrina. The military is prepared for all kinds of situations so they are probably the best government agency to help.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#47

Post by tguvot »

slim wrote: post #44

This is suprisingly interesting. They use a 3D model to geographically identify each sub-unit of the original building in the rubbles. Then they gather intelligence on clues in each unit to confirm their data and adjust their model accordingly. Doing this they are able to improve precision and identify smaller units in the rubbles (ex. identify each room within a house). It's really an intelligence unit with the adde…

They are part of the army, but it's part that is called Homefront Command that is tasked with civil defense: preparing the population for a conflict or disaster, assisting the population during the crisis, and contributing to post-crisis reconstruction. It mostly focuses on civilians and infrastructure.

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#48

Post by mellow-lake-day »

colordrops wrote: post #43
robertwt7 wrote: post #38

>Israeli team has fewer members so they learn to be 'small and swift' It is amazing to see how they work to save those people, at the same time terrifying to think how they got those experience with all those never ending wars throughout their lifetime. Salut to the team for helping those in grief. Also from wikipedia: >Distinct from possible construction defects, an analysis of European Remote-Sensing Satellite data…

So about 2 inches. Is that enough to cause a collapse? I don't know enough to answer this question, but I would hope that buildings are engineered to handle at least a couple inches of sinking. My house in the hills has 2-3 inch variations after 70 years of existence, but admittedly it's not a high rise building.

It may have contributed to it but in this case the bigger problem was an error in the construction of the building:

> In 2018, an inspection performed by the engineering firm Morabito Consultants showed a "major error" in the construction of the pool deck, whereby the waterproofing layer was not sloped. Water that collected on the waterproofing remained until it could evaporate. Over the years, the concrete slabs below the pool deck had been severely damaged by this water. The report noted the waterproofing below the pool deck was beyond its useful life and needed to be completely removed and replaced.

> On June 30, WLS-TV in Chicago publicized a bystander's video of water pouring into the parking garage from above near its entrance, and apparent concrete rubble lying on the floor, apparently taken at 1:18 a.m., seven minutes before the north-central portion of the building collapsed.

From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surfside_condominium_collapse#...

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#49

Post by EdwardDiego »

lostlogin wrote: post #34
tguvot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. Actually they don't really have similar "field experience" from Israel (fortunately). They do have a bunch of training with artificially made piles of rubbles and whenever something happens somewhere in the w…

Watching and reading about the teams arriving in Christchurch, New Zealand after the earthquake that happened there was really impressive and inspiring. Countries that seemed far away and uninvolved had teams touching down at staggered intervals and brought resources and skill that really helped. International search and rescue seems to be a little world of its own that operates away from the noise and bickering of ‘…

NZ's SAR teams (primarily urban SAR) have repeatedly deployed overseas to assist after a natural disaster, same with our Police DVI (disaster victim identification) teams - most prominently after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami.

There's a lot of solidarity between countries on the Ring of Fire when it comes to natural disasters. We even had the Californians turn up alongside the other countries.

Likewise, rural firefighters from NZ, Australia and California routinely travel to each other's countries when backup is needed.

It's the implicit reciprocity, and real life training opportunities that drive it. Otherwise your training is all stimulated, like covering a bunch of mannequins in sheep offal...

https://www.police.govt.nz/news/ten-one-magazine/dvi-trainin...

Re: Israeli military search team helped recover majority of Surfside victims

#50

Post by mellow-lake-day »

lostlogin wrote: post #34
tguvot wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even at first thought, it makes sense why the IDF would be well equipped for such a mission, given all the turmoil in the Middle East(mentioned in the article), they have much more experience in this situation. Actually they don't really have similar "field experience" from Israel (fortunately). They do have a bunch of training with artificially made piles of rubbles and whenever something happens somewhere in the w…

Watching and reading about the teams arriving in Christchurch, New Zealand after the earthquake that happened there was really impressive and inspiring. Countries that seemed far away and uninvolved had teams touching down at staggered intervals and brought resources and skill that really helped. International search and rescue seems to be a little world of its own that operates away from the noise and bickering of ‘…

Reminds me of flight MH 370 although unfortunately the plane was ultimately not found.
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