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Haiku Beta 3

haiku-os.org

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Re: Haiku Beta 3

#71

Post by bctnry »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66
shrikant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are various first-level responses "reacting" to OP's "negative feedback" with (what I think are) very reasonable suggestions (try this thing, try that thing, ask on forums, etc.) This is a sub-thread to the original complaint (which was quite reasonable), where OP is taking on an oddly hostile and aggressive tone, and powerfully punching at various strawmen. I'm not sure what you think an adequate reaction woul…

OP may be exaggerating a bit with their claim that Haiku isn't an OS, but what is important is their frustration. Haiku is billing itself as an OS that runs on PCs and parent is frustrated because it has never run on any PC they have tried it on. That's the thing to take away here. Either they should make it more explicit[0] what it does and doesn't run on, or work harder to support more hardware. Pointing out that i…

So op venting about shit is "maybe exaggerating a bit" and "important frustration" but other people venting is just "defensiveness"? Yeah sure people have to be nice to any one lmao. Ars Technica literally made a long article about how Haiku worked on a cheap-ass laptop, still no, keep on venting about social disability bullshit, and you're here complaining about other people being angry about op being this rude. Truly the moral standard everyone should follow huh.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#72

Post by shrikant »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66
shrikant wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are various first-level responses "reacting" to OP's "negative feedback" with (what I think are) very reasonable suggestions (try this thing, try that thing, ask on forums, etc.) This is a sub-thread to the original complaint (which was quite reasonable), where OP is taking on an oddly hostile and aggressive tone, and powerfully punching at various strawmen. I'm not sure what you think an adequate reaction woul…

OP may be exaggerating a bit with their claim that Haiku isn't an OS, but what is important is their frustration. Haiku is billing itself as an OS that runs on PCs and parent is frustrated because it has never run on any PC they have tried it on. That's the thing to take away here. Either they should make it more explicit[0] what it does and doesn't run on, or work harder to support more hardware. Pointing out that i…

I think it's unfair to look past the tone and language of OP's subsequent comments (not an OS in a meaningful way, "can't run on an actual computer", "social disability", "It's just dogshit, and it's getting worse", etc.) and just summarise the core of their complaints as "frustration"... after having decried open source communities for counter-productive reactions.

I feel like when you apply this standard of "overlook the tone, understand the message" asymmetrically to only one "side" of the argument, it highlights your biases.

As an aside, if you look at the proportion of comments (and maybe even the fuzzy timestamps while they're still discernible), the original commenter's hostile comments outnumber their "just frustrated" ones, while a large majority of responses to them are civil and constructive. The 'shut up and get your shit together' was in response some weirdly aggressive attack on the Haiku mantainers/contributors, after OP had also called the OS dogshit.

Anyway, this is all mostly off-topic and I have no affiliation with Haiku at all, but I just didn't want an unwarranted attack on obviously motivated and passionate developers' labour of love go undefended.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#73

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bctnry wrote: post #71
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP may be exaggerating a bit with their claim that Haiku isn't an OS, but what is important is their frustration. Haiku is billing itself as an OS that runs on PCs and parent is frustrated because it has never run on any PC they have tried it on. That's the thing to take away here. Either they should make it more explicit[0] what it does and doesn't run on, or work harder to support more hardware. Pointing out that i…

So op venting about shit is "maybe exaggerating a bit" and "important frustration" but other people venting is just "defensiveness"? Yeah sure people have to be nice to any one lmao. Ars Technica literally made a long article about how Haiku worked on a cheap-ass laptop, still no, keep on venting about social disability bullshit, and you're here complaining about other people being angry about op being this rude. Tru…

> So op venting about shit is "maybe exaggerating a bit" and "important frustration" but other people venting is just "defensiveness"?

From the perspective that Haiku is a product, would you rather have people associate your product with people who took your frustrated feedback to heart or people who told you to shut up because you missed a burreid forum posting about hardware compatibility? If you're an enthusiast of said product, you're doing no one any favors by being hostile.

> Ars Technica literally made a long article about how Haiku worked on a cheap-ass laptop

Which does nothing for someone who couldn't get it to run on any of the hardware they tried it on.

> and you're here complaining about other people being angry about op being this rude

I'm just saying, it's sadly very common, does nothing to help anybody, and leaves people with a negative opinion of their community.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#74

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

shrikant wrote: post #72
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP may be exaggerating a bit with their claim that Haiku isn't an OS, but what is important is their frustration. Haiku is billing itself as an OS that runs on PCs and parent is frustrated because it has never run on any PC they have tried it on. That's the thing to take away here. Either they should make it more explicit[0] what it does and doesn't run on, or work harder to support more hardware. Pointing out that i…

I think it's unfair to look past the tone and language of OP's subsequent comments (not an OS in a meaningful way, "can't run on an actual computer", "social disability", "It's just dogshit, and it's getting worse", etc.) and just summarise the core of their complaints as "frustration"... after having decried open source communities for counter-productive reactions. I feel like when you apply this standard of "overlo…

> I feel like when you apply this standard of "overlook the tone, understand the message" asymmetrically to only one "side" of the argument, it highlights your biases.

It's pretty simple. If people have an unfavorable opinion of handelaar, that's handelaar's problem. But if people have a negative opinion of the Haiku community based on how Haiku enthusiasts have treated handelaar, that's Haiku's problem. If you're a supporter of Haiku you're not doing anyone any favors by behaving that way.

> Anyway, this is all mostly off-topic and I have no affiliation with Haiku at all, but I just didn't want an unwarranted attack on obviously motivated and passionate developers' labour of love go undefended.

Eh, I look at it differently. If you're making a product you intend for public consumption, this sort of thing is just something you have to accept. Just because it is a labor of love for somebody doesn't make it good nor excuse it from criticism.

Granted, we'd all be better off if handelaar had expressed themselves more reasonably.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#75

Post by bctnry »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #73
bctnry wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So op venting about shit is "maybe exaggerating a bit" and "important frustration" but other people venting is just "defensiveness"? Yeah sure people have to be nice to any one lmao. Ars Technica literally made a long article about how Haiku worked on a cheap-ass laptop, still no, keep on venting about social disability bullshit, and you're here complaining about other people being angry about op being this rude. Tru…

> So op venting about shit is "maybe exaggerating a bit" and "important frustration" but other people venting is just "defensiveness"? From the perspective that Haiku is a product, would you rather have people associate your product with people who took your frustrated feedback to heart or people who told you to shut up because you missed a burreid forum posting about hardware compatibility? If you're an enthusiast o…

> If you're an enthusiast of said product, you're doing no one any favors by being hostile.

Ah i see you must be too blind to see others have tried not being hostile, failed and get called out as having "social disability".

> Which does nothing for someone who couldn't get it to run on any of the hardware they tried it on.

Sure:

1. People have to help you here no matter what even if you're being very rude. 2. Certainly "it does not work on my machines" to "it does not work on anything" is a very reasonable stretch!

> I'm just saying, it's sadly very common, does nothing to help anybody, and leaves people with a negative opinion of their community.

if someone could just not leave other people with a negative opinion of him/her/themselves lol

> > keep on venting about social disability bullshit

> I don't even know what this means, but have a suspicion that if I did I would have a low opinion of you as a person for saying it.

seriously? lmfao, that phrase goes for you too, shut up and get your shit together.

as for the "does not help anybody" bit, yeah clearly venting like you do helps a heck lot to everybody.

A lot of people have been frustrated about the thing does not work for them (yes including me myself) but why does OP get the hate he/she/they get? If you can't figure that out yourself, you should probably do something else instead of keep posting here.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#76

Post by sho_hn »

drclau wrote: post #44
qwerty456127 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Installer loaded, system was installed and rebooted in about 20-30 seconds This was my experience with QNX 6 two decades ago. Installing and booting into its beautiful Photon desktop environment took less time than it took to just boot Windows 2000. > And this was in a VM with SATA disk backing. Believing virtualization always makes things slower is a mistake. Windows XP always booted and worked a lot faster in a V…

Oh, QNX [0]! That was such a great OS, and quite advanced for the times (microkernel, realtime, userland was POSIX complaint etc). I remember I tried QNX Neutrino sometime in the first half of the 2000's, and it literally booted from a 1.44MB floppy into a UI (Photon), and had a working browser and everything needed to setup an internet connection (back then, this included dialup related stuff). Of all OSes that coul…

I'd say QNX isn't quite "niche". It continues to be very successful in automotive, with most modern cars sold probably running at least a few instances on different computers throughout the in-vehicle network. Also other industries.

It has safety certifications that are so far difficult to achieve with anything else able to support the required use cases.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#77

Post by shrikant »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #74
shrikant wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's unfair to look past the tone and language of OP's subsequent comments (not an OS in a meaningful way, "can't run on an actual computer", "social disability", "It's just dogshit, and it's getting worse", etc.) and just summarise the core of their complaints as "frustration"... after having decried open source communities for counter-productive reactions. I feel like when you apply this standard of "overlo…

> I feel like when you apply this standard of "overlook the tone, understand the message" asymmetrically to only one "side" of the argument, it highlights your biases. It's pretty simple. If people have an unfavorable opinion of handelaar, that's handelaar's problem. But if people have a negative opinion of the Haiku community based on how Haiku enthusiasts have treated handelaar, that's Haiku's problem. If you're a…

> But if people have a negative opinion of the Haiku community based on how Haiku enthusiasts have treated handelaar, that's Haiku's problem.

Absolutely a fair point.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#78

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

bctnry wrote: post #75
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So op venting about shit is "maybe exaggerating a bit" and "important frustration" but other people venting is just "defensiveness"? From the perspective that Haiku is a product, would you rather have people associate your product with people who took your frustrated feedback to heart or people who told you to shut up because you missed a burreid forum posting about hardware compatibility? If you're an enthusiast o…

> If you're an enthusiast of said product, you're doing no one any favors by being hostile. Ah i see you must be too blind to see others have tried not being hostile, failed and get called out as having "social disability". > Which does nothing for someone who couldn't get it to run on any of the hardware they tried it on. Sure: 1. People have to help you here no matter what even if you're being very rude . 2. Certai…

> People have to help you here no matter what even if you're being very rude.

Not at all. It is entirely possible to simply ignore them. We even have a system of downvoting and flagging for people being overly hostile.

> if someone could just not leave other people with a negative opinion of him/her/themselves lol

That's their problem to deal with on their own. When you represent the Haiku community badly, that's everyone in the Haiku community's problem.

> seriously? lmfao, that phrase goes for you too, shut up and get your shit together.

I deleted that part when I read back to find what you were referencing because I realized it didn't at all mean what I suspected it meant. Although my opinion of you as a person is lowering for other reasons.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#79

Post by sho_hn »

fbnlsr wrote: post #62
shaunrussell wrote: post #59

There is something about the text rendering in the screenshots that makes the GUI look 20 years old. What is it exactly? Anti-aliasing?

It looks like it's using a bitmap font, which always look odd compared to what we're using nowadays.

It's not using a bitmap font.

Re: Haiku Beta 3

#80

Post by bctnry »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #78
bctnry wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're an enthusiast of said product, you're doing no one any favors by being hostile. Ah i see you must be too blind to see others have tried not being hostile, failed and get called out as having "social disability". > Which does nothing for someone who couldn't get it to run on any of the hardware they tried it on. Sure: 1. People have to help you here no matter what even if you're being very rude . 2. Certai…

> People have to help you here no matter what even if you're being very rude. Not at all. It is entirely possible to simply ignore them. We even have a system of downvoting and flagging for people being overly hostile. > if someone could just not leave other people with a negative opinion of him/her/themselves lol That's their problem to deal with on their own. When you represent the Haiku community badly, that's eve…

> When you represent the Haiku community badly, that's everyone in the Haiku community's problem.

it's truly, truly a sad mental state to consider anyone has to be representing some certain community. really hope someday you can pull yourself out of that.

> Although my opinion of you as a person is lowering for other reasons.

lower it as much as you want my friend, seriously wouldn't mind if some random stupid asshole insists considering me a stupid asshole.

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