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PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

dell.com

111–120 of 281 posts

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#111

I found this document published by Intel which has all sorts of technical information about "CEC Friendly Motherboards" that appears to describe the regulatory framework that rules out sale of certain computers to customers in those six states, https://processormatch.intel.com/Resources/Program%20for%20C... .

Thanks. Looks like everyone knew about this since at least Jan 2018. Guess Dell didn't care to update their motherboards.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#112
post #36

Just want to remind everyone how far California has gone in energy efficiency: > In 2018, California's energy consumption was second-highest among the states, but its per capita energy consumption was the fourth-lowest due in part to its mild climate and its energy efficiency programs. Source: https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=CA#tabs-4 This is an achievement to be proud of.

Why?

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#113
post #103
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do the electric bills keep increasing?

In part, because the fixed infrastructure is built to serve peak demand, not average consumption. Bring down the peak (flatten the curve) and the rates will come down too. Or, put differently, rates are high exactly because California per-capita usage is low -- fewer kWh across which to amortize costs. Importantly, while California rates are relatively high, customer's bills are not -- because the customers use less…

> In part, because the fixed infrastructure is built to serve peak demand, not average consumption.

Also, net metering and widespread consumer generation (largely solar) means that the fixed infrastructure costs are actually amortized not across the low total energy usage, but across a fraction of the total, already low, usage.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#114
post #96
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The freedoms of collaboration over the Internet can taken away with: 1. widespread trusted computing (we're close) 2. banning encrypted comms over unregulated spectrums (done) 3. political will to ban such freedoms (growing) How can those that prefer such freedoms preserve them? Political activism can. Can censorship resistant tech help in that situation? Plausibly deniable mesh networks? Sneakernet?

On further reflection, I'm optimistic: This nightmare scenario was proposed in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Broadband_and_Digit... for combatting piracy, and instead we have settled on a lesser evil of limited DRM to access Netflix. This permits torrenting, but torrenting is less prevalent now. A carbon tax is inevitable, and will alleviate the concerns such as OP's. Control over E2E encrypted messaging i…

Another way this could play out is some gov official decides to create the National Commission on App Stores (to solve the Apple and Google abuses), and then a bureaucrat comes later and just says every device must have and use an App Store, and we have the NCAS to ensure it’s fair, so why would you want anything else?

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#115
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because it’s cool to break the rules? Does it matter to you that these rules are trying to protect our civilization from dissolving in a heap of wildfires, floods, power outages, droughts, storms, etc? This stuff is not just hypothetical any more.

You probably waste more electricity running your dishwasher instead of by hand than running a laptop. If battery usage is a problem because of climate change, then tax carbon and you can decide to cut back or pay more on dish washing, food deliveries, big houses with huge heating cost and the like, and everyone who wants a cool laptop can spend their money (or carbon credits) on that. If that's what's bothersome, the…

> You probably waste more electricity running your dishwasher instead of by hand than running a laptop.

Handwashing wastes energy compared to using a dishwasher, because it uses significantly more water that costs energy to purify.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#116
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. According to Natural Resources Defense Council via NYT, "about a quarter of all residential energy consumption is used on devices in idle power mode" in Northern California [1]. Huge opportunity for efficiency improvement through regulatory action, given idle power consumption is otherwise an afterthought for both manufacturers and consumers. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/science/just-how-much-pow...

> about a quarter of all residential energy consumption is used on devices in idle power That cannot possibly be true. I would love to know how they calculated that. In New Zealand only about 20% of home electricity is used on electronics. And in the USA it appears to be even lower. https://www.nzcompare.com/n/power/average-household-electric... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/what-uses-the-most-energy-h... Dryers,…

I suspect it’s not quite right either, but two of those appliances (dryer, heating) are often powered by natural gas in the US (and on the East Coast, heating is done with “heating oil”).

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#117
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. According to Natural Resources Defense Council via NYT, "about a quarter of all residential energy consumption is used on devices in idle power mode" in Northern California [1]. Huge opportunity for efficiency improvement through regulatory action, given idle power consumption is otherwise an afterthought for both manufacturers and consumers. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/science/just-how-much-pow...

> about a quarter of all residential energy consumption is used on devices in idle power That cannot possibly be true. I would love to know how they calculated that. In New Zealand only about 20% of home electricity is used on electronics. And in the USA it appears to be even lower. https://www.nzcompare.com/n/power/average-household-electric... https://www.visualcapitalist.com/what-uses-the-most-energy-h... Dryers,…

The link to the NRDC pdf with methodology is right there in the NYT article. Here it is, page 8. I edited my comment to show the study/quote was specifically about northern california https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/home-idle-load-IP.p...

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#118
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren't that powerful from a computing standpoint; They use low-end i5 11400F along with a low-end nVidia 1650 Super and have 8GB single-channel memory. Also, I think it's more about inefficiency when sleeping and idle.

Yeah, but for me its more about it being illegal than actually being a good laptop.

[deleted]

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#119
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These aren't that powerful from a computing standpoint; They use low-end i5 11400F along with a low-end nVidia 1650 Super and have 8GB single-channel memory. Also, I think it's more about inefficiency when sleeping and idle.

If it was about inefficiency there would be regulations about efficiency, not raw power usage.

The linked regulations throughout the other comments are all about efficiency when sleeping.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#120
post #97
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because it’s cool to break the rules? Does it matter to you that these rules are trying to protect our civilization from dissolving in a heap of wildfires, floods, power outages, droughts, storms, etc? This stuff is not just hypothetical any more.

You probably waste more electricity running your dishwasher instead of by hand than running a laptop. If battery usage is a problem because of climate change, then tax carbon and you can decide to cut back or pay more on dish washing, food deliveries, big houses with huge heating cost and the like, and everyone who wants a cool laptop can spend their money (or carbon credits) on that. If that's what's bothersome, the…

Dishwashers are, in fact, fabulously efficient. They use far less hot water than warning by hand, and the majority of the energy spent on dishwashing is spent on heating water.
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