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PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

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Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#91
post #80
post #17

I've never wanted an Alienware laptop in my life, but as a resident of Oregon there is absolutely nothing more that I want right now than an illegally powerful laptop.

Why? Because it’s cool to break the rules? Does it matter to you that these rules are trying to protect our civilization from dissolving in a heap of wildfires, floods, power outages, droughts, storms, etc? This stuff is not just hypothetical any more.

Society is collapsing because of the idle power consumption of laptops?

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#92
post #4

This is like banning a Bugatti Veyron (worldwide production about 30 per year) because the gas mileage is too low. Priceless Puritans.

The issue is idle power draw, so it’s more like banning a Ford F150 that cannot be turned off when it’s not being driven.

Imagine if your neighbor got a car that just sat in the driveway with its engine running 24 hours per day.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#93
post #36

Just want to remind everyone how far California has gone in energy efficiency: > In 2018, California's energy consumption was second-highest among the states, but its per capita energy consumption was the fourth-lowest due in part to its mild climate and its energy efficiency programs. Source: https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=CA#tabs-4 This is an achievement to be proud of.

> This is an achievement to be proud of.

I mean I'm all for reducing power consumption, but is having a mild climate an achievement to be proud of? I'd guess that California's main population centers have fewer degree days away from 72 F than any other state in the country. By default, you'd expect their power consumption to be the very lowest.

(The other states close to CA in consumption per capita have much worse climates, but their people live in denser urban centers and have smaller, likely more efficient dwellings.)

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it really be smuggling (ie. something you could go to jail for if you did it)? If someone took some new laptops with them in their carry-ons or checked luggage when they flew from one state to another, or even acted as an official courier, would that be illegal?

> If someone took some new laptops with them in their carry-ons or checked luggage when they flew from one state to another, or even acted as an official courier, would that be illegal? If their plan is to sell them when they arrive then it probably is illegal.

What if they were already sold but were just getting delivered?

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#95
post #70
post #36

Just want to remind everyone how far California has gone in energy efficiency: > In 2018, California's energy consumption was second-highest among the states, but its per capita energy consumption was the fourth-lowest due in part to its mild climate and its energy efficiency programs. Source: https://www.eia.gov/state/?sid=CA#tabs-4 This is an achievement to be proud of.

Yep. According to Natural Resources Defense Council via NYT, "about a quarter of all residential energy consumption is used on devices in idle power mode" in Northern California [1]. Huge opportunity for efficiency improvement through regulatory action, given idle power consumption is otherwise an afterthought for both manufacturers and consumers. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/science/just-how-much-pow...

Yep. This is literally why these PCs cannot be shipped. Their idle/sleep consumes too much power.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#96
post #53
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrifying. Also: "This PC cannot authenticate to your ISP because the ability to run unsigned code makes it an environmental and digital weapon."

The freedoms of collaboration over the Internet can taken away with: 1. widespread trusted computing (we're close) 2. banning encrypted comms over unregulated spectrums (done) 3. political will to ban such freedoms (growing) How can those that prefer such freedoms preserve them? Political activism can. Can censorship resistant tech help in that situation? Plausibly deniable mesh networks? Sneakernet?

On further reflection, I'm optimistic:

This nightmare scenario was proposed in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Broadband_and_Digit... for combatting piracy, and instead we have settled on a lesser evil of limited DRM to access Netflix. This permits torrenting, but torrenting is less prevalent now.

A carbon tax is inevitable, and will alleviate the concerns such as OP's.

Control over E2E encrypted messaging is an ongoing policy dispute. I don't have a good feel for how the pieces will land. A lesser evil solution might be to require warranted escrow for popular messaging clients. This permits two malicious actors communicating over unpopular platforms, but catches cases like threats/harassment on popular platforms.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#97
post #80
post #17

I've never wanted an Alienware laptop in my life, but as a resident of Oregon there is absolutely nothing more that I want right now than an illegally powerful laptop.

Why? Because it’s cool to break the rules? Does it matter to you that these rules are trying to protect our civilization from dissolving in a heap of wildfires, floods, power outages, droughts, storms, etc? This stuff is not just hypothetical any more.

You probably waste more electricity running your dishwasher instead of by hand than running a laptop. If battery usage is a problem because of climate change, then tax carbon and you can decide to cut back or pay more on dish washing, food deliveries, big houses with huge heating cost and the like, and everyone who wants a cool laptop can spend their money (or carbon credits) on that. If that's what's bothersome, then regulate the problem, not try to micromanage people's hobbies - which brings illegitimacy to people who advocate for actual change, instead of scoring petty political points making it look like you're doing something by adding another useless regulation with a short shelf-life of relevancy.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#98
post #88
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months of wildfires with brownouts where only half the population can have power at a given time will save a bucketload, too.

You think California spent months with 1/2 the population without power at a time?

Not continuously, just intermittently for a few months of the year.

Re: PC can't be shipped to CA, CO, HI, OR, VT or WA due to power consumption

#100
post #80
post #17

I've never wanted an Alienware laptop in my life, but as a resident of Oregon there is absolutely nothing more that I want right now than an illegally powerful laptop.

Why? Because it’s cool to break the rules? Does it matter to you that these rules are trying to protect our civilization from dissolving in a heap of wildfires, floods, power outages, droughts, storms, etc? This stuff is not just hypothetical any more.

Address the dirtiest sources and the largest sinks, not the symbolic tiny sinks. Your laptop using 6 watts of idle power is not going to make a meaningful difference.
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