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PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

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Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#221

Post by deltaonefour »

fsflover wrote: post #215
deltaonefour wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the blame game. When asking a user that has no care, ideology or stakes in the game how "good" an OS is... if the OS crashes, that OS is likely bad. This is the overall the most important metric.

Linux does not crash anymore. Proprietary apps can though. Is it still on the OS?

Linux does crash. I've seen it crash yesterday. It depends on the hardware you're using.

When it crashes it's 100% a problem in kernel space. Driver issues, compatibility issues. It is NOT an app. The OS should not give the privilege to an app to crash anything else other than itself.

What you MEANT to say is Linux crashes less than before and likely never crashes for certain hardware.

OVERALL linux will still crash MORE than windows when you look at everything holistically.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#222

Post by deltaonefour »

rglullis wrote: post #218
pjmlp wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and usually more constraint in capabilities.

If by "capability" you mean not supporting some latest standard that provides marginal benefit over established solutions (e.g, Wi-Fi b/n/c/whatever, "cloud printing") or anti-features (Apple's "Pro" touchbar), then yes. But if you mean being able to do anything actually useful , I'd say that maybe only those working with Audio Processing still are under-served by Linux Desktop - and even that will change soon with P…

Don't forget CAD, gaming, Photo editing, Video Editing, Visual Effects and much much more.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#223

Post by deltaonefour »

d110af5ccf wrote: post #133
NhanH wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a fairly high chance that beta iOS would smoke even Debian stable out of the window in term of stability for end users. I run Windows with Windows Insider enabled with Dev channel (basically the most beta Windows there is), and no Ubuntu version I've used came close to that Windows setup with regards to stability. I choose to use Linux despite the bad UX and bad stability for end user. Linux server (and pack…

This does not match my experience at all. Debian stable is hands down the most robust and well tested collection of software I have ever used. All issues have been on my end - either hardware failure or my own ignorance while mucking about in the configs. LibreOffice specifically had serious stability issues a few years ago but has been much better lately. You could run Microsoft Office under Wine all along though (o…

>Admittedly 3D graphics (not 2D office applications) can be rocky depending on your vendor. I've had good luck with AMD lately (but not in the past). That's entirely the fault of the vendors (AMD & Nvidia) though. Integrated Intel is and always has been absolutely flawless.

This isn't like some caveat. This is huge. It's pretty bad in terms of overall usability.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#224

Post by rglullis »

pjmlp wrote: post #220
rglullis wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "capability" you mean not supporting some latest standard that provides marginal benefit over established solutions (e.g, Wi-Fi b/n/c/whatever, "cloud printing") or anti-features (Apple's "Pro" touchbar), then yes. But if you mean being able to do anything actually useful , I'd say that maybe only those working with Audio Processing still are under-served by Linux Desktop - and even that will change soon with P…

Yeah, yet another reboot on the GNU/Linux desktop stack, I lost count of them.

You are really grasping at straws here. We are talking about Linux support for devices in a traditional work environment and I can seriously say that has been more than adequate for more than 10 years. How many backward-incompatible API changes does Apple push every couple of OS versions?

How many dongles were people forced to buy to continue using whatever peripheral they had already working?

Can you please stop with the goal-post moving?

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#225

Post by akho »

pjmlp wrote: post #216
akho wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quality is being solid, easy to develop for, and, yes, free. I think you overestimate the ability of appliance companies to develop proprietary OS kernels. MIT/BSD licensed stuff is still free software.

Having fun enjoying the free software from PlayStation 4 OS? I advise you to read about Zephyr OS, FreeRTOS, Azure RTOS, Fuchsia, NuttX,....

Zephyr is Apache licensed, FreeRTOS MIT, Fuchsia BSD/MIT/Apache, NuttX Apache. ThreadX is the only one on your list that's not free software, and the success it achieved over its 24 years of existence is not anything to write home about.

A closed-source OS in this space has no real chance, as it has to be adapted by hardware makers. Microsoft may be able to provide the backing for wider ThreadX adoption, but don't hold your breath.

I don't see how the fact that BSD allows proprietary forks implies it is not high-quality software.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#226

Post by rglullis »

deltaonefour wrote: post #222
rglullis wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "capability" you mean not supporting some latest standard that provides marginal benefit over established solutions (e.g, Wi-Fi b/n/c/whatever, "cloud printing") or anti-features (Apple's "Pro" touchbar), then yes. But if you mean being able to do anything actually useful , I'd say that maybe only those working with Audio Processing still are under-served by Linux Desktop - and even that will change soon with P…

Don't forget CAD, gaming, Photo editing, Video Editing, Visual Effects and much much more.

No. The point of the discussion was about hardware support. Wacom tablets, USB video game controllers and custom editing panels (like the ones for DaVinci Resolve) are AFAIK supported on Linux just fine.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#227

Post by dang »

Ok, if we're gonna go there—here are the past threads with meaningful comments. Others?

Ask HN: 2021 PinePhone Review? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27665011 - June 2021 (4 comments)

Ask HN: Smartphone As Exclusive Word-Processor Device? (& Pinephone) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27654403 - June 2021 (8 comments)

Librem 5 Evergreen vs. PinePhone (Part 2) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27605712 - June 2021 (96 comments)

Upgrading a PinePhone Braveheart edition to 3GB - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27567009 - June 2021 (2 comments)

The PinePhone could bring the Linux mobile ecosystem to life - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27494006 - June 2021 (219 comments)

Pinephone Keyboard Update - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26929153 - April 2021 (20 comments)

PinePhone – Beta Edition Linux SmartPhone Preorder - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26566373 - March 2021 (300 comments)

PinePhone Beta - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26518162 - March 2021 (71 comments)

Fedora on the PinePhone: Pipewire Calling - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26080207 - Feb 2021 (90 comments)

Can the PinePhone replace your Android or iOS device? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25995418 - Feb 2021 (3 comments)

Librem 5 Evergreen vs. Pinephone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25338633 - Dec 2020 (121 comments)

PinePhone KDE Community Edition is now available - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25264515 - Dec 2020 (196 comments)

PinePhone multi-distro demo image - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25221666 - Nov 2020 (1 comment)

Pine64 November Update: KDE PinePhone CE and a Peek into the Future - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25133428 - Nov 2020 (132 comments)

PinePhone – KDE Community edition - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25100694 - Nov 2020 (152 comments)

Let's talk about safety of Pinephone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24596248 - Sept 2020 (76 comments)

Review of Pinephone PostmarketOS CE - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24525210 - Sept 2020 (1 comment)

Putting 13 PinePhone distributions on a 8GiB USD card - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24474150 - Sept 2020 (2 comments)

PinePhone – Multi-Boot of 9 distros on a single SD card - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24405946 - Sept 2020 (3 comments)

PinePhone Manjaro Community Edition - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24329900 - Aug 2020 (166 comments)

How to update U-Boot for PostmarketOS on the Pine Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24244407 - Aug 2020 (8 comments)

Linux PinePhone has physical kill switches for its cameras, mic, data, BT, Wi-Fi - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24184091 - Aug 2020 (146 comments)

The Linux-based PinePhone is the most interesting smartphone I've tried in years - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24168226 - Aug 2020 (2 comments)

$200 PinePhone Linux smartphone comes with physical kill switch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24167497 - Aug 2020 (13 comments)

Wayland and LVGL on PinePhone with Ubuntu Touch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23947176 - July 2020 (47 comments)

Pine64 announce the Pinecil, TS100 compatible RISC-V soldering iron - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23890848 - July 2020 (76 comments)

Pinephone – “Community Edition: PostmarketOS” Linux smartphone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23849202 - July 2020 (209 comments)

PostmarketOS // PinePhone CE available for pre-order - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23846588 - July 2020 (1 comment)

PinePhone: PostmarketOS Community Edition - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23528571 - June 2020 (76 comments)

Sxmo: Simple X Mobile – A Pinephone UI that is simple and suckless - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261839 - May 2020 (29 comments)

May Update: PineTab Pre-Orders, PinePhone Qi Charging and More - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23193563 - May 2020 (51 comments)

Pinephone first steps - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23130247 - May 2020 (89 comments)

Pinephone – Community Edition: UBports - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22844223 - April 2020 (36 comments)

KDE’s Plasma Mobile Is Shaping Up Nicely on the PinePhone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22377386 - Feb 2020 (4 comments)

PinePhone – Unboxing and First Impressions - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22359086 - Feb 2020 (4 comments)

Pine64 February update: PinePhone, PineTab, Pinebook, new products and delays - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22338593 - Feb 2020 (1 comment)

PinePhone Misconceptions - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22145826 - Jan 2020 (88 comments)

Linux Smartphone – Yet Another Librem 5 and PinePhone Comparison - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21850285 - Dec 2019 (1 comment)

PinePhone review - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21830391 - Dec 2019 (1 comment)

PinePhone Review - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21824962 - Dec 2019 (259 comments)

Manjaro ARM Alpha1 for PinePhone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21727334 - Dec 2019 (7 comments)

Pinephone – “BraveHeart” Limited Edition Linux SmartPhone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21544059 - Nov 2019 (69 comments)

Pine64 November Update – ANSI Pinebook Pro and PinePhone Preorder - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21452740 - Nov 2019 (86 comments)

PineTime Is a $25 Smartwatch / Companion for PinePhone Linux Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20977788 - Sept 2019 (124 comments)

PinePhone $149 Linux Smartphone Could Support Ubuntu, Sailfish, Maemo, LuneOS - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20130577 - June 2019 (4 comments)

Software on Librem 5 and PinePhone Linux Phones Is Progressing Nicely - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20120331 - June 2019 (14 comments)

PinePhone Linux smartphone to sell for $149, dev kits coming soon - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19052931 - Feb 2019 (10 comments)

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#228

Post by dataflow »

throwawayswede wrote: post #169
dataflow wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not defining it. "High-quality" is in the question you would ask the user. They respond to you based on their own best judgment of what it means to them.

I don't know what to tell you other than you probably haven't used any recent version of these software. I know many people who are not tech-savvy and use OpenOffice, Gimp or Blender daily. They're both reliable and function (in some aspects) on par with the commercially available stuff.

> I don't know what to tell you other than you probably haven't used any recent version of these software.

Well you would be wrong. I have LibreOffice 7.1.4.2 in front of me right now and it still can't correctly render stuff I had from 2014. The text boxes and stuff all end up in massively wrong positions, like they always have. (And they render fine in Word, like they always have.)

Similarly, first Excel spreadsheet I try to open in it gives this error: Warning loading {document}: The data could not be loaded completely because the maximum number of columns per sheet was exceeded.

I could waste my time with other examples but it would be that: wasting my time.

Don't get me wrong, I'm rooting for them. Maybe someday there will finally come a free office program that can function like MS Office did a decade ago. I'm looking forward to seeing it before I die. But in the meantime, there's just no way we can honestly tell people LibreOffice is as high-quality as MS Office, regardless of how much we want that to be the case. It's just a lie we keep telling ourselves.

> (in some aspects)

...you just made my point for me.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#229

Post by fsflover »

deltaonefour wrote: post #221
fsflover wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux does not crash anymore. Proprietary apps can though. Is it still on the OS?

Linux does crash. I've seen it crash yesterday. It depends on the hardware you're using. When it crashes it's 100% a problem in kernel space. Driver issues, compatibility issues. It is NOT an app. The OS should not give the privilege to an app to crash anything else other than itself. What you MEANT to say is Linux crashes less than before and likely never crashes for certain hardware. OVERALL linux will still crash…

> It depends on the hardware you're using.

Buy hardware designed for Linux and you will have no problems. Ideally, with preinstalled Linux.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#230

Post by throwawayswede »

dataflow wrote: post #228
throwawayswede wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what to tell you other than you probably haven't used any recent version of these software. I know many people who are not tech-savvy and use OpenOffice, Gimp or Blender daily. They're both reliable and function (in some aspects) on par with the commercially available stuff.

> I don't know what to tell you other than you probably haven't used any recent version of these software. Well you would be wrong. I have LibreOffice 7.1.4.2 in front of me right now and it still can't correctly render stuff I had from 2014. The text boxes and stuff all end up in massively wrong positions, like they always have. (And they render fine in Word, like they always have.) Similarly, first Excel spreadshee…

> Similarly, first Excel document I try to open in it gives this error: Warning loading {document}: The data could not be loaded completely because the maximum number of columns per sheet was exceeded.

That's not exactly a fair assessment exercise. I'm not sure what format is the original excel file, but xlsb is a proprietary format.

My experience with Writer is wonderful. Have not had any issues and I know many people who use it daily with no issues.

Try to balance a picture and a couple of paragraphs in M$ Word in a long document and then come back to me on how that "high-quality" software handles it.

> there's just no way we can honestly tell people it's as high-quality as MS Office

Apparently, like many others in this entire thread, you've totally missed the point. I wasn't saying it's "as" high quality as M$ word (although I disagree with the usage of the word high quality here) but just that it is high quality by itself. This is known as an irrelevant conclusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrelevant_conclusion

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