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Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

insidemedicine.bulletin.com

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Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#261

Post by maceurt »

throwawayboise wrote: post #123
cletus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullying may not have a gender but in the aggregate it's different between boys and girls. Note the word "aggregate". There are invariably anecdotes the contradict the aggregate view but the point is that it's not an absolute, just an aggregate. There's lots of research on this topic. You see the ripples of this well into adulthood. You see it as the expectations placed on girls and women where they're held to a high…

> at least until male bullying graduates into violence My experience is that it mostly starts there. Most of male "bullying" is establishing physical dominance. It's almost all intimidation, physical threats, pushing/shoving, fighting. The psychological, gossipy, demeaning sort of bullying is more from the females.

Maybe 5-10 years ago, but from my experience you rarely see physical bullying anymore. Its has been cracked upon way to harshly for it to really be the huge issue it once was. I have personally seen a physical form of bullying maybe a few times in my whole entire high school and middle school experience. And I went to 3 different high schools with each one being made up of students from completely different backgrounds, ethnicities, and socioeconomic levels.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#262

Post by hda111 »

throwawaysea wrote: post #23
waynesonfire wrote: post #2

reddit removed this link due to not passing media bias.. interesting. https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaCoronavirus/comments/oqawe5/s...

A number of the biggest coronavirus subreddits also openly censor articles and ban users for the slightest violation of their biases. For example if you share articles or studies that suggest lockdowns are illogical, or that the virus may have originated from a lab leak, or that the infection fatality rate is low, you would see your discussions closed and potentially get a permanent ban from those subreddits. Perhaps…

It’s not censorship if some admins (private persons) decide they don’t want it. Try discussing Windows topics in a Linux subreddit.

If I had a blog with comment function and someone writes a comment I don’t like I’m not forced to publish it. It’s the same situation.

The solution is of course decentralization and self hosting communities and not blaming reddit for decisions of individual admins.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#263

Post by KptMarchewa »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #172
lupire wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. It's not "Dad didn't let me on Instagram". It's "Dad didn't let me have shared experiences to build relationships with my peers."

If a shared experience is toxic to the mental well-being of my kids, then they're not going to share in the experience. I'd rather my kid hate me for a couple years as a teenager for not letting them engage in harmful things than never getting out of their teenage years.

Oh, they'll going to hate you a lot longer than that.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#264

Post by aidenn0 »

363722636 wrote: post #257
phist_mcgee wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that your comment is facetious, but I think there may be something to this line of thinking. Men are more likely to follow through with their actions, due to immense social pressure for success. Even if that success is killing yourself, I think a lot of men would rather a successful attempt than an unsuccessful, just to avoid the shame of failing at something so serious.

It's because men are more likely to use a gun to commit suicide while, for whatever reason, women are more likely to down a bottle of whatever there is in the medicine cabinet that they think will do the job. This ladder approach backfires if you dont know whether a specific medicine is designed to induce vomitting in large doses or how to negate that concern (and with suicide being tied heavily to moments of impulsi…

In places where guns are not available, men are more likely to hang themselves; this is also a fairly deadly method.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#265

Post by zepto »

fxtentacle wrote: post #246
atoav wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but these magazines are something you have to actively buy and read. As the uncle of three girls I'd say what has more impact is peer pressure in social media. Girls from your class/school displaying images of themselves fulfilling certain body stereotypes. Seeing the same images in advertisements makes things only worse. Putting female people into certain position doesn't turn them automatically into liberal ch…

The thorny issue is that your 3 examples might reduce that girl's chances on the dating market, so it might even be reasonable for her relatives to attempt to support her in obtaining a high quality partner. I'd say the critical part wrt suicides is not that people are competing for attention from the opposite sex, because that has been around for a million years. The critical new aspect is that people are now grossl…

> most high school girls will never need to compete against a Hollywood actress on looks, because the latter one is unavailable to all of her male classmates anyway.

Is this actually true?

Just because the hollywood access (or porn star) is unavailable doesn’t mean the male classmates are behaving that way.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#266

Post by harleypig »

I have a personal knowledge of what comes from suicides and suicide attempts. It is something that needs to be addressed.

I have issues with this article, as well as with the owner of the 'bulletin.com' domain. This article flips between discussing 'suicide attempts' and 'suicides' as if they are interchangeable, while only showing the data on 'suicide attempts'.

This bothers me.

"In fact, suicide attempts in adolescent girls dropped to rates similar to those seen in the summer of 2019. That’s not unexpected. Suicide death rates (for which we have decades of reliable data) among teens and young adults predictably fall during summer months, and also in December—that is, times when schools are the least in session." (emphasis mine)

'Suicide deaths' and 'suicide attempts' are not interchaneable.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#267

Post by yowlingcat »

austincheney wrote: post #160
yowlingcat wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freeing children from nonsense like drugs and social media isn’t holding them back But surveilling on them will. You're using your own active involvement as a crutch to compensate for the fact that you can't leave them to their own devices and know they'll do the right thing. But how can they do that if you don't teach them and you don't give them the right chance to show they can do it? You're not teaching them to…

I am not allowing them to grow and learn right from wrong… only because social media? Seriously? They aren’t locked away from people and sunlight. They engage socially in the real world. They don’t need social media to fail and learn from failure. They have every opportunity to fail for real among real people. When they get out on their own hopefully they learned they don’t need social media to be happy or drugs or a…

> hopefully they learned they don’t need social media to be happy or drugs or alcohol

Ah, but how would they have learned that? After all, they're not doing it because they "learned" it, they're doing it because you're forcing them to do it. You're never actually "unit testing" their ability to come to the right independent judgment on their own, because you don't trust them to. But because you don't trust them to, they may not develop the experience to independently come to probably the same conclusion you came to. And if they do, you certainly aren't helping them.

Rather, what they're learning is that they'll have to go and buy their own prepaid cell phone on their own and get better and better at hiding it because "Dad is an uptight Boomer so what he doesn't know about this prepaid cell phone won't hurt him" which is probably not the lesson you're trying to teach them. If that mentality gets to drugs, alcohol, and sex, you may be in for more than you bargained for -- whether you pick up on it or not.

Kids are very, very smart. They have much more time than you, the vigor of youth, the ability to see everything with fresh eyes and work things out from first principles -- and not just that, they have a whole network of /friends/ who have the exact same resources and who they can work with as a team.

You're not going to stop them from experimenting. You'll just stop them from being open about it with you.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#268

Post by azth »

isthisreality wrote: post #71
Dumblydorr wrote: post #44

This data isn't that convincing, a lot of factors go into this messy correlation between ED visits for girl suicide attempts and covid closure of schools. The title of the link doesn't mention ED visits for attempts, which is the actual outcome of interest here, so IMO the link title is too strongly worded from an epidemiologists viewpoint. Now conjecturing as to correlation confounders. Maybe the girls need more tim…

The higher attempt rate for girls is probably due to boys being more effective at killing themselves (4x as effective, in fact). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27942628

What does the effectiveness of suicide have to do with the rate at which people attempt it?

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#269

Post by aesh2Xa1 »

azth wrote: post #268
isthisreality wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The higher attempt rate for girls is probably due to boys being more effective at killing themselves (4x as effective, in fact). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27942628

What does the effectiveness of suicide have to do with the rate at which people attempt it?

A successful attempt results in no further attempts.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#270

Post by iamstupidsimple »

austincheney wrote: post #255
ben_w wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is a misaligned AI whose sole purpose is to put adverts in front of as many eyeball-seconds as possible. It is trying to manipulate us to that end, and with 2.8 billion people to practice on, it’s also very effective; much like junk food, it gives users the sensation of being good even though it isn’t. All of the big networks are trying to do that, with varying degrees of success. This isn’t about being “soc…

There is nothing wrong with forgetting people you don’t care that much about. Expecting software to solve problems you never had before is the very definition of artificial.

Constantly hearing "oh, I thought I sent everyone an invite [on Facebook]" will hurt a child deeply.
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