Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#151

Post by tzs » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #26

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

South Park, season 3 episode 11, "Chinpokomon", covered how this really works:

Kyle: [enters] Mom, Dad, can I have money to buy Chinpokomon?

Sheila: What's a Chinpokomon?

Kyle: I'm not sure.

Sheila: Well, why do you need one?

Kyle: I don't know.

Sheila: ...Well then, the answer is no, Kyle. You just got money to buy your Cyborg Bill doll.

Kyle: Yeah, but Cyborg Bill is totally gay now. Please Mom? Everybody else has Chinpokomon.

Gerald: Well, Kyle, that's not a reason to buy something.

Ike: Neah Kyle doh.

Gerald: You see, son, fads come and go. And this "Chin-po-ko-mon" is obviously nothing more than a fad. You don't have to be a part of it. In fact, you can make an even stronger statement by saying to your peers, "I'm not going to be a part of this fad, because I'm an individual." Do you understand?

Kyle: Yes. Yes, I do, Dad. Now let me tell you how it works in the real world. In the real world, I can either get a Chinpokomon, or I can be the only kid without one, which singles me out, and causes the other kids to make fun of me and kick my ass.

Gerald: Hm... Good point; here's $10. [hands it to him]

Kyle: Thanks.

Gerald: Wait, here's 20. Get one for your brother, too. [Kyle receives the other $10 and walks out]

Ike: Hey, Chih-paw-ko.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#152

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #61

Dumblydorr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets…

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> they can pay for their own damn phone.

What do you do when they mow some lawns and do just that?

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#153

Post by retrac » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

lupire wrote: post #142

base698 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram kills, from Coddling: > U.S. hospitals going back to 2001 and were able to estimate self-harm rates for the entire country. They found that the rate for boys held steady at roughly 200 per hundred thousand boys in the age range of fifteen to nineteen. The rate for girls in that age range was much higher, but had also been relatively steady from 2001 to 2009, at around 420 per hundred thousand girls. Beginni…

Has anyone checked Instagram use among those girls and others?

Yes. Social media use is correlated with anxiety, depression and suicidal thoughts, particularly in girls, in a growing number of studies. And in the studies that compare different social networks, Instagram usually ranks the most negatively. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/04/depression-i...

https://journals.lww.com/co-psychiatry/fulltext/2019/11000/s...

But of course, an isolated, depressed, anxious child is likely to withdraw and spend a great deal of time online. Whether it's a symptom or a cause, or both and to which degree, seems unclear.

That said, just anecdotally, as a man in my 30s, I cannot look at the typical popular Instagram profile targeted at my demographic. It evokes horrible feelings. Jealousy, image insecurity, sexual insecurity, sexual frustration, FOMO, social status insecurity... all bundled up in a nasty ball. And quite reliably induced after ten seconds and three photos of inhumanely sexy men in implausibly photogenic homes that cost 10x as much as I'll ever make. No thanks. I believe that walling that whole thing off mentally, has been good for me.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#154

Post by enriquto » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:50 PM UTC

longhairedhippy wrote: post #93

Dumblydorr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets…

This is totally anecdotal but I have 3 teenagers and I think the most important thing is keeping up with what's going on in their lives and taking an active interest in making sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with the problems that come up. Teens are just people with very little experience dealing with their seemingly huge amounts of emotion so parents should help them process. We can't protect them from ev…

> making sure they are emotionally equipped to deal with the problems that come up

This is a terrifyingly difficult prospect. I guess almost nobody in the world is so well equipped for that. There are really hard problems that nobody can "deal" with alone, like the death of loved ones, or social ostracism from your whole peer group. No matter how "well equipped" you are, some things may be simply overwhelming.

EDIT: I learned this the hard way. I am well off economically and emotionally, always had a cushioned life, I became the father in a happy family, really felt totally invincible. But something happened at the age of 41 (sudden death of my dad, in very bad circumstances) that I was not prepared at all to deal with. I used to mock people who couldn't cope with their own problems, but as an adult I learned that some problems may be really too big to rationalize off. I guess many teenagers find themselves in such difficult situations that cannot really solve (like being a victim of overwhelming social pressure), regardless of how loving and close their parents are.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#155

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

mprovost wrote: post #20

retrac wrote: post #16

There was something very off before the pandemic. Girls were already diverging sharply from the historical norm and from boys over the last few years: https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachme... "Sex- and Age-specific Increases in Suicide Attempts by Self-Poisoning in the United States among Youth and Young Adults from 2000 to 2018". It's disproportionately a specific method (poisoning) and it is…

Instagram was founded in 2010.

Yeah but it was quite diferent back then, a lot more niche and photographer-y. Its a totally different network today.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#156

Post by aidenn0 » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:51 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #16

There was something very off before the pandemic. Girls were already diverging sharply from the historical norm and from boys over the last few years: https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachme... "Sex- and Age-specific Increases in Suicide Attempts by Self-Poisoning in the United States among Youth and Young Adults from 2000 to 2018". It's disproportionately a specific method (poisoning) and it is…

In my abnormal psychology class, we learned that men had a much higher success rate in suicide, except in places where women had ready access to highly lethal poison.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#157

Post by trulyme » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:56 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #141

lupire wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you may be in for a rude awakening in your relationship with your kids, and probably your kids are doing things behind your back.

Why would you suspect that?

Not GP, but agree with them. In my opinion: because you don't show respect for them. What would your reaction be if someone said that to you and you were powerless to do much about it?

Of course, this is all judging just by the tone of your posts, so it might not be (and I hope it isn't) a true reflection of reality. Kids are smart, they just lack experience. But they still deserve respect from day 1, and if they have it then most of the usual parenting problems never surface.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#158

Post by Wowfunhappy » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #78

MrFoof wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I hear from everyone I know with kids... >How would you handle it if they bought their own 2nd cellphone, and only used the cellular network to escape your control. That's what really happens. Lock your kid down? They'll get right around it by going outside of the infrastructure and devices you supply. They'll just carry two phones around, and you just won't be wiser about the second one unless you catch th…

Yes. Our collective age is showing, perhaps. One can buy a new phone or tablet, with a month's data plan, with a few days' lunch money now, in some places. This translates into there being no practical way to keep a dedicated teenager off the Internet, unless they're literally never allowed out of the house and monitored 24/7. (And that might well be child abuse without very good cause! And you've probably already lo…

Where can you buy a phone/tablet that’s capable of browsing the internet, and a data plan with enough data to be worthwhile, for a few days of lunch money?

Actually, would retail stores even sell a data plan to an unaccompanied minor? You could buy a SIM online I suppose, possibly via a gift card, and watch the mail carefully to ensure the package isn't seen, but it all seems like a lot of work for a small amount of web browsing.

I’d think that in the worst case scenario, the child goes through the process once, browses the internet for a couple of days on a super crappy device, uses up their data, and realizes the whole thing wasn't really worth it. Maybe they do it again in a few months when they're particularly bored; whatever, it's a few days out of the year.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#159

Post by ipaddr » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

ramphastidae wrote: post #90

austincheney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Speaking from experience, if you keep that up, your kids will break contact with you as soon as they are old enough. If you decide that your parenting style is “fuck off,” you can expect the same attitude from your kids towards you when you are older. Hope you are ready to die on this hill.

This is the I better be my child's best friend or do what they want or they won't like me and will never talk to me again parenting dtyle.

In the end you don't want to be friends you want to set clear guidelines and expectations.

Venting f-bombs teaches them to vent f-bombs.. not great.

Your kids will be back for money regardless..

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#160

Post by austincheney » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 8:02 PM UTC

yowlingcat wrote: post #145

austincheney wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freeing children from nonsense like drugs and social media isn’t holding them back. My children’s social development occurs in the real world where they participate in sports and educational activities and spend time with friends offline. Social media isn’t real socializing.

> Freeing children from nonsense like drugs and social media isn’t holding them back But surveilling on them will. You're using your own active involvement as a crutch to compensate for the fact that you can't leave them to their own devices and know they'll do the right thing. But how can they do that if you don't teach them and you don't give them the right chance to show they can do it? You're not teaching them to…

I am not allowing them to grow and learn right from wrong… only because social media? Seriously? They aren’t locked away from people and sunlight.

They engage socially in the real world. They don’t need social media to fail and learn from failure. They have every opportunity to fail for real among real people.

When they get out on their own hopefully they learned they don’t need social media to be happy or drugs or alcohol. At that point they are free to make their own decisions and face all the consequences without the help of a parent.