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PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

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Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#181

Post by throwawayswede »

NhanH wrote: post #35
throwawayswede wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a poor argument. Usually this happens to "tech savvy" people when they like to tinker with their system on daily basis and use bleeding edge software (since you have unlimited customizability, unlike the competition), you're bound to have issues. Normal users can just use an LTS release and (for the average user) they won't even be able to tell the difference. Talk to anyone who installs beta iOS versions and…

There is a fairly high chance that beta iOS would smoke even Debian stable out of the window in term of stability for end users. I run Windows with Windows Insider enabled with Dev channel (basically the most beta Windows there is), and no Ubuntu version I've used came close to that Windows setup with regards to stability. I choose to use Linux despite the bad UX and bad stability for end user. Linux server (and pack…

> There is a fairly high chance that beta iOS would smoke even Debian stable out of the window in term of stability for end users.

You could not have chosen a worse example distro to throw in your flawed presumption. Debian is one of the most rigorously tested and sought after distros specifically for its stability.

There's nothing wrong in you preferring to use Windows or Mac. But throwing unsubstantiated claims around is foolish.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#182

Post by pjmlp »

rglullis wrote: post #172
pjmlp wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe when this crisis is over, those Linux devs should come one day earlier when trying to do presentations on our beamers, instead of showing us the configuration mighty of xrandr.

It's the other day around. You should be asking them what beamers they would be able to use on their Linux systems with good support and that does not require complicated tools, instead of buying something that is not supported (yet!) and claiming later that Linux is crap because it doesn't work for your particular type of hardware.

Except at the end of the day catering for 1% of the desktop is too much to ask for to cripple business operations with, when 99% of everyone else is coming in with Windows and macOS laptops.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#183

Post by MartijnBraam »

tunap wrote: post #178
MartijnBraam wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All webshops I've ever ordered monitors from basically had the same rules, except they're usually slightly more hidden. I have 7 pinephones here and not a single dead pixel, only defect I've ever had was dust in a display on a pinetab prototype.

Query, since you appear to be heavily involved: I am looking to buy a used/cheap phone to replace our home wifi hotspot(a very tired Moto G4 + LineageOS, always plugged to power). No calls or texts required, just handling up to 5 device connections to the inet(music streaming, video downloads, web browsing). Having a new linux toy to tinker with would be a bonus, would love to support Pine64, but the inet reliability…

A PinePhone would work fine for that I think. It's also possible to use any MSM8916 phone together with postmarketOS to do that kind of thing, the G4 is not supported on mainline in postmarketOS yet sadly, only the G4 Play.

I would recommend to use usb tethering though instead of wifi tethering. Just get a router that has an USB port that supports a modem and use that with a phone.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#184

Post by MartijnBraam »

t0bia_s wrote: post #80

PinePhone is too big for me. I cannot use any smartphone with over 72mm weight. It is difficult to use by one hand and have it in pocket. Im curious when reasonable sizes (like old iPhone SE) come back to market.

Well the PinePhone is this size because it's impossible to fit the parts in it otherwise.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#186

Post by deltaonefour »

superasn wrote: post #57
deltaonefour wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is not true. As far as I am concerned Linux is clearly superior OS for my laptop over commercial alternatives. I would argue Linux is only superior from the IT software perspective. This is a very narrow perspective that is only inflated if you're in IT or on an IT related site like HN. From almost every other dimension Linux is inferior and therefore from an Overall perspective it is inferior. The most importa…

I used to feel the exact same way until 2 years ago. But my experience has been absolutely brilliant with Linux mint in the last 2 years. No driver issues, super nice UI and everything just works now! As a matter of fact the only use I have for Windows now is for playing games (also Photoshop). Otoh the amount of clutter and issues I have to deal in Win10 is just bad. I digress but thankfully there is a tool called "…

I've used manjaro, ubuntu ,mint and even NixOS. I've hit numerous compatibility and usability issues that just doesn't happen in Windows or OSX.

Also your post touches on the most important dimension. Gaming and graphics and cad. Have you tried doing this stuff on linux? The experience is clearly inferior.

I think there's a psychological blocker here. You're aware Linux is shit for games and photoshop, but you still say linux is better because everything works! That's contradictory. Photoshop and games CLEARLY don't work according to your post which is the exact things I am talking about.

Either way I've still had the Linux OS crash on me within the last month. Something that just doesn't happen ever with windows or OSX anymore.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#187

Post by MartijnBraam »

Avamander wrote: post #149
MartijnBraam wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest version of megapixels has pretty much realtime preview now. The postprocessing still takes 30 seconds though which is why it's done in the background (just like android phones) The focus speed just won't be great, it's old-school contrast detection autofocus.

Any chance for built-in live image stacking to get rid of the noise in still images?

maybe if someone writes a decent implementation

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#188

Post by akho »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #12
katmannthree wrote: post #3

The pinephone is great, in fact I'm typing this comment from mine. That said, fair warning to anyone thinking about getting one: it's slow, buggy, and flat out unreliable if you need to be able to receive / answer calls and texts for anything important (e.g. work). Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline…

> Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline linux distribution. I'm coming to the realisation that open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones. How can we honestly expect a small team of developers to compete with the larger teams a commerical project can afford? The realit…

It's really strange how different people's approach to technology can be.

I find that free software is generally better, more solid, more stable, and more useful on its own merits than commercial alternatives. There is a clear point where this breaks — new hardware, new hardware interactions — largely because hardware vendors do not do their jobs with regard to Linux / BSDs. But in terms of pure user-friendliness? it's not even a contest.

To me, user-friendliness implies that software is moldable to my workflows, and that other users' stuff is easy to integrate. Also, disruptive change is evil.

This concept of user-friendliness necessarily implies that software should be end-user programmable, and the pieces of the environment should be composable. Most commercial end-user software fails at this. There are clear commercial motivations why it should, given a need to sell 'apps' for every workflow, and the need to work in corporate environments (where limiting users' ability to interact is a necessity for the people who make software buying decisions).

iOS is especially bad at this, given the appification of everything. There seems to be an effort to do at least something good in Shortcuts, but it's very much not enough.

I do most computer stuff in Firefox, Emacs, and xterm. Or WSL (xterm and Emacs) on Windows when I'm on a Windows device because something requires it. I'm actually typing this on a Raspberry Pi, where I only have those three installed as graphical apps. I also occasionally need Darktable (which needs a GPU for any kind of performance) and Office, for which I power on a different computer. Which I would find extremely hostile without WSL.

You can also track how Linux things are percolating into Windows / macOS. Virtual desktops were a thing in Linuces for years and years before coming to those two. Tiling just begins to arrive. UNIX terminal environments are such a pain decreaser that even MS now has a way to use them. With my xmonad setup I live in the future, and that's the future that has been available for a decade.

Browsers are probably the most important user-facing applications right now, and are all opensource-originated. Whether corporate capture of KHTML did any good is a question; I don't think it did.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#189

Post by deltaonefour »

onli wrote: post #47
deltaonefour wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is not true. As far as I am concerned Linux is clearly superior OS for my laptop over commercial alternatives. I would argue Linux is only superior from the IT software perspective. This is a very narrow perspective that is only inflated if you're in IT or on an IT related site like HN. From almost every other dimension Linux is inferior and therefore from an Overall perspective it is inferior. The most importa…

The common Linux interfaces are very easy to decipher and have a good usability. Usability is measurable property, so that's not a guess, just a fact. Add to that the higher task purpose you can get with Linux (partly boosted by not having annoying blockers to get work done, like Windows ads and forced reboots) and the infinitely higher customizablity (for the user's needs and wants) and for general computer usage, t…

>The common Linux interfaces are very easy to decipher and have a good usability

The most common interface is bash (or alternative bash-like languages). Which is pretty much required if your a hardcore linux user. Applications push users towards command line interfaces. This is NOT easy to decipher. You are lying to yourself.

>Of course, usability always depends on the specific task you have to do in a given context. It's possible that for the specific software you have to run for that task, that Windows or Apple software has the better usability. But that's far from the norm.

How about the entire gaming library. The entire CAD field. What about 3D modelling or graphics programs like Photoshop. Or how about Audio production? Open Source choices are lacking while industry standards Don't even run on linux. These are huge and NORMAL aspects of computing that are inferior in a major way.

>Compatibility Linux wins though in general, it supports way more hardware and software. If you think proprietary software is better there: Get out of your bubble :)

Have you tried steam on linux? I've had Linux supported games fail to even start for me. I've had my computer restart on linux games. Not even getting into the steam compatibility layer here.

These are huge issues. A crashing OS is just something that rarely happens with Windows or OSX and I have to say that I've hit this on the regular with Linux on many many different pieces of hardware. This isn't a bubble, I believe the opposite is happening here. I'm a hardcore linux user who's realistic and you're the one deluding yourself into thinking FOSS is superior in every way (It's not).

I am not SMEARING FOSS. That is a dishonest AND personal accusation. There is a huge difference between SMEARING and just stating my opinion.

Look at my original post. There are aspects of FOSS that are SUPERIOR to closed source, but FOSS in general is INFERIOR from a usability and compatibility perspective.

What you are doing here by accusing me of smearing FOSS is starting a witch hunt. Likely you're unaware of the gravity of what you're doing and you just have a biased mob mentality right now. Read your own post, is there anything.. anything at all said that is negative about linux? You are not able to approach this from a fair and balanced perspective. Windows and OSX and Linux are three pillars in the OS world and failing to mention even one positive for Windows and OSX is pretty biased.

What's your distro of choice? I use NixOS, prior to that I was into Arch, and prior to that ubuntu and mint. So I have a very good view of the ecosystem.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#190

Post by rglullis »

pjmlp wrote: post #182
rglullis wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the other day around. You should be asking them what beamers they would be able to use on their Linux systems with good support and that does not require complicated tools, instead of buying something that is not supported (yet!) and claiming later that Linux is crap because it doesn't work for your particular type of hardware.

Except at the end of the day catering for 1% of the desktop is too much to ask for to cripple business operations with, when 99% of everyone else is coming in with Windows and macOS laptops.

Not at all. The peripherals that work with Linux also will (likely) work with Windows or MacOS.
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