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Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

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Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#251

Post by nerdponx »

lugged wrote: post #249
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Female editors are presumably highly represented at these magazines and they don't seem to have a problem with the destruction they wreak. Regardless of gender, the people that rise to the top tend to be sociopathic…

All 1-4% of them... The insinuation that anyone who rises to the top of an organisation must be sociopathic is dillusional. Yes, there is a higher incidence at the CEO level, traits that help you in a role also help you get there, go figure, but the idea all leaders are sociopaths is a huge stretch based off nothing but your own bias and distain for anyone high up in a power structure, that seems to be going around r…

Is there any reason that sociopathy can't exist on a spectrum, and why 1-4% of the population couldn't be somewhere on it? What's the state of research in this area?

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#252

Post by ben_w »

austincheney wrote: post #229
iamstupidsimple wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here on this website, we spend an awful lot of time discussing how one person remote working on a team who are in-person can easily lead to being forgotten. This is similar. When somebody is putting an event together and goes through their contact list on FB, you not being there puts you at a small disadvantage. If you're socially awkward in-person, it can really set you back.

It makes me wonder how these socially inept people lived life before Facebook ran their lives for them. Perhaps they cared about things more than following some high school drop out they once knew in a prior life decades before.

Facebook is a misaligned AI whose sole purpose is to put adverts in front of as many eyeball-seconds as possible. It is trying to manipulate us to that end, and with 2.8 billion people to practice on, it’s also very effective; much like junk food, it gives users the sensation of being good even though it isn’t. All of the big networks are trying to do that, with varying degrees of success.

This isn’t about being “socially inept” — if everyone simultaneously agreed to not use social media, we could and would all go back to what we did before[0] — but even knowing the nature of the beast, dismissing its power, its pull, its allure, is a Canute move.

[0] @iamstupidsimple was saying people not on the contact list would be more likely to be forgotten, and that’s true regardless of if the person not on the list is socially awkward or highly charismatic; before Facebook, the list was a piece of paper, but the same applies to that paper list.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#253

Post by imtringued »

ayngg wrote: post #129
voisin wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not disagreeing but I am interested to know which specific factors make it so different from things in the past. I remember growing up and the boogeyman was sexualized videos on MTV and violent video games. I didn’t believe it then and I don’t quite believe it now. Not to say I don’t believe social media has negative impacts but this is a pretty sharp rise. It also coincided with the post-2009 financial crisis.…

I think the difference is that the MTV sexuality scare was predicated on the belief that sexualized videos would normalize sexualization in youth with negative consequences, whereas in social media applications create the incentive structures for that behavior to thrive. I assume the fear was girls would sexualize themselves because of what they saw was popular on MTV, which they believed would make them popular as w…

The mistake that was made with video games is that you do not have to live out the fantasy in the real world. If playing a violent video game makes people more video game violent then they will keep committing more video game violence ... inside video games. I will go one step further and say that video games let you video game sexualize yourself the same way you commit video game violence. Case in point: All the female player characters played by men to scam other men in MMOs.

The problem with social media is that it is not a game. It's real life.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#254

Post by austincheney »

dragonwriter wrote: post #232
ipaddr wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the I better be my child's best friend or do what they want or they won't like me and will never talk to me again parenting dtyle. In the end you don't want to be friends you want to set clear guidelines and expectations. Venting f-bombs teaches them to vent f-bombs.. not great. Your kids will be back for money regardless..

> > If you decide that your parenting style is “fuck off,” you can expect the same attitude from your kids towards you when you are older. > This is the I better be my child's best friend or do what they want or they won't like me and will never talk to me again parenting style. No, there's a great honking excluded middle there between the “fuck off” parenting style and the “I must be my kids best friend” style.

While that’s true the GP mentioned children breaking contact and never speaking to their parents again as though there is some permanent catastrophic trauma which is out of scope to the example expressed.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#255

Post by austincheney »

ben_w wrote: post #252
austincheney wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes me wonder how these socially inept people lived life before Facebook ran their lives for them. Perhaps they cared about things more than following some high school drop out they once knew in a prior life decades before.

Facebook is a misaligned AI whose sole purpose is to put adverts in front of as many eyeball-seconds as possible. It is trying to manipulate us to that end, and with 2.8 billion people to practice on, it’s also very effective; much like junk food, it gives users the sensation of being good even though it isn’t. All of the big networks are trying to do that, with varying degrees of success. This isn’t about being “soc…

There is nothing wrong with forgetting people you don’t care that much about. Expecting software to solve problems you never had before is the very definition of artificial.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#256

Post by austincheney »

0xEFF wrote: post #230
austincheney wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Caution is warranted on the you can have it if you can pay for it route. An enterprising teenager may earn money in undesirable ways. I’m a parent and I’m thinking I’ll handle this as a clear you can have it or you can’t to avoid the grey and black market incentives.

While that sounds unpleasant the initiative is worthy of praise. It’s something to work within. I would probably prefer that outcome over drug addiction to Facebook or TikTok.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#257

Post by 363722636 »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #245
mmiliauskas wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course we do, our toxic masculinity demands us to excel at everything...

I understand that your comment is facetious, but I think there may be something to this line of thinking. Men are more likely to follow through with their actions, due to immense social pressure for success. Even if that success is killing yourself, I think a lot of men would rather a successful attempt than an unsuccessful, just to avoid the shame of failing at something so serious.

It's because men are more likely to use a gun to commit suicide while, for whatever reason, women are more likely to down a bottle of whatever there is in the medicine cabinet that they think will do the job. This ladder approach backfires if you dont know whether a specific medicine is designed to induce vomitting in large doses or how to negate that concern (and with suicide being tied heavily to moments of impulsiveness, by the time you finish the research your resolve may have left you)

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#258

Post by ben_w »

austincheney wrote: post #255
ben_w wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is a misaligned AI whose sole purpose is to put adverts in front of as many eyeball-seconds as possible. It is trying to manipulate us to that end, and with 2.8 billion people to practice on, it’s also very effective; much like junk food, it gives users the sensation of being good even though it isn’t. All of the big networks are trying to do that, with varying degrees of success. This isn’t about being “soc…

There is nothing wrong with forgetting people you don’t care that much about. Expecting software to solve problems you never had before is the very definition of artificial.

Missing the point. Everyone else is using software to solve problems they never had before, and failing to use it makes you the one out.

When your kids’ friends send a request to all their social media contacts list, it takes extra effort for your kids’ friends to realise your kids are one of the few people who aren’t in that list and need to be contacted separately.

Is that fair? No.

Is it nice? No.

Is it fun? No.

Is it malicious? No.

Is it a lack of interest on the part of your kids’ friends? No.

Is it a reason for your kids to secretly make their own accounts without you knowing about it? Yes.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#259

Post by maceurt »

bloopernova wrote: post #51
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #39

I have a theory I'd propose: The biggest cause of teen suicide is essentially feeling rejected in some way by your peers: being bullied, a breakup, "mean girl" switches from former friends, etc. When schools closed, the immediate pressure of any of these negative social interactions went to the background (or at least simmered on social media). When schools reopened, kids tried to figure out where they fit back in th…

Anecdotally: I was bullied a lot in school. When I became avoidant and just stayed at home, I was a lot happier because I didn't have those stressors.

I was bullied a lot in school and then I quit going to school and started staying home and never felt worse in my life.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#260

Post by maceurt »

Zababa wrote: post #83
joezydeco wrote: post #29

I witnessed this first hand. My daughter is in this age bracket and our school was 100% remote up until the spring of 2021. The return to school was hybrid, two days a week, and divided 50/50 by alphabet. Her anxiety levels went through the roof. Thankfully we didn't get to an extreme case of suicidal ideation but things were pretty bad for a while. Medication has helped, but getting a therapist appointment is nearly…

> This is all stuff that boys of this age don't care about. But the girls are vicious. That's not totally true. Sure the buys may not care about new clothes or slumber parties (though I doubt it), but they will care for other reasons. Bullying doesn't have a gender.

Yeah this person I don't think understands what school is like at all. Boys were getting bullied for the exact same stuff that girls were getting bullied for, sometimes even by girls themselves. I can't stand when adults who haven't been to highschool in 20 years try to make vast generalizations about something they have absolutely no clue about.
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