Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#31

Post by prepend » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

isthisreality wrote: post #22

isthisreality wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> During February 21–March 20, 2021, suspected suicide attempt ED visits were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12–17 years than during the same period in 2019; among boys aged 12–17 years, suspected suicide attempt ED visits increased 3.7%. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm

Comparatively speaking, at least gender-wise, this data should be taken with a grain of salt. Males are historically more effective at killing themselves. This data only looks at ED visits and you don't go to the hospital when you're clearly dead. And if you assume "suicide attempt" is using the technical definition [1], they're only looking at ED visits where the patient did not die. Males aged 15 to 24 were 4x as l…

Yet did the successful suicide rate in males increase to compensate? It seems like you have a duty, out of politeness, to at least address whether you attempted to address this.

Bringing up makes suicide rates vs female without trying to address if that explains a 50v3% increase in attempts isn’t very helpful, or interesting.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#32

Post by spoonjim » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #21

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

I fear that it may be as simple as that. Because if that's the cause, I'm not sure we can fix it.

The Clean Air Act provided a legal framework to fix air pollution. We need a similar approach to fix mind pollution. I don’t think this is impossible because Zuckerberg has managed to piss off apparently everyone across the political spectrum. If it was someone like Steve Jobs I would say the problem would be much harder.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#33

Post by Dumblydorr » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #26

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it?

I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets on this app.

Some good that'll do. When I have kids, it'll be "dad, why can't we join the VR orgy party? It's not real sex!"

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#34

Post by throwawayboise » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #26

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

If you had kids, you would know that you can control what they do up until about middle-school age, at which point your ability to control them begins to decline. They're starting to grow into independent adults.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#35

Post by spoonjim » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #27

retrac wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could that just be... delaying the inevitable? Sorry to phrase it like that. At some point your daughter has to come into contact with others. If it's a social effect -- and I suspect it is -- then exposure to the self-image issues, or bullying, or status competition, or whatever it is at work here, might just lead to suicides when exposed to these things in college, rather than in high school. While the focus is mos…

The school system is a highly abusive environment, in many places. Young adults doing meaningless busywork in a highly-restrictive environment with artificial social dynamics is bad enough without some of them being modelled off prisons.

The busywork is a huge aspect of it. I used to have very compulsive behaviors that pretty much ended when I had the responsibility of a family to take care of. Teenagers have too much mind power and too little responsibility for it... when people were getting married at 17/21 there was not as much time to stew over things.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#36

Post by neonnoodle » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

Solstinox wrote: post #6

corndoge wrote: post #4

"We found the correlation to be very strong, which is the highest category statistically possible" What?

I can see the Far Side Comic that never was. "Having been burned one too many times by putting lines through shotgun blasts, scientists switched to correlation categories."

Divide study results into tranches with AAA, AA, and B ratings.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#37

Post by thaumasiotes » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #10

“ In writing this, I have found the surprising reverse correlation between suicidal behavior and time spent in school—both prior to the Covid-19 pandemic and during it—gnawing at me. Could it be that the pressures around school itself are among the most important stressors related to suicidality among teens? If that’s so, the underlying reasons could be related either to academic or social pressures. Regardless, no o…

What is supposed to be meant by "reverse correlation"? Correlation is a symmetric phenomenon, and the final part of the quote makes it clear that the correlation between these two behaviors is positive, not negative:

> more time spent in the classroom appears to be associated with increased rates of attempted or completed suicide.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#38

Post by throwawayboise » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #13

mensetmanusman wrote: post #10

“ In writing this, I have found the surprising reverse correlation between suicidal behavior and time spent in school—both prior to the Covid-19 pandemic and during it—gnawing at me. Could it be that the pressures around school itself are among the most important stressors related to suicidality among teens? If that’s so, the underlying reasons could be related either to academic or social pressures. Regardless, no o…

Could that just be... delaying the inevitable? Sorry to phrase it like that. At some point your daughter has to come into contact with others. If it's a social effect -- and I suspect it is -- then exposure to the self-image issues, or bullying, or status competition, or whatever it is at work here, might just lead to suicides when exposed to these things in college, rather than in high school. While the focus is mos…

Women can be bullying and status-seeking at any age, but it's at its worst in high school. By early 20s many have developed some maturity and the beginnings of a sense of perspective on social things, maybe because they've seen enough of themselves, their friends and peers suffering.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#39

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

I have a theory I'd propose:

The biggest cause of teen suicide is essentially feeling rejected in some way by your peers: being bullied, a breakup, "mean girl" switches from former friends, etc. When schools closed, the immediate pressure of any of these negative social interactions went to the background (or at least simmered on social media). When schools reopened, kids tried to figure out where they fit back in the "totem pole" of adolescent social hierarchy, and the rise in suicides is a result of kids not figuring out where they fit in when they went back.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#40

Post by pengaru » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #26

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

> I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

I can't imagine how impossible it would be to shield them from all these toxic technologies like smartphones and social media while still being in the continental USA. Even if you managed it, they'd be in constant exposure on the periphery, and incessantly reminded of their otherness vs. the masses. It just doesn't seem healthy to me.

If I had kids today, I'd buy an undeveloped island somewhere like coastal Panama and raise an army of them off-grid while homesteading on it.

But I've opted to just go childless instead. Humans are like a wildfire raging across the planet, it doesn't need me to throw more fuel on it...