Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#21

Post by retrac » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

mprovost wrote: post #20

retrac wrote: post #16

There was something very off before the pandemic. Girls were already diverging sharply from the historical norm and from boys over the last few years: https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachme... "Sex- and Age-specific Increases in Suicide Attempts by Self-Poisoning in the United States among Youth and Young Adults from 2000 to 2018". It's disproportionately a specific method (poisoning) and it is…

Instagram was founded in 2010.

I fear that it may be as simple as that. Because if that's the cause, I'm not sure we can fix it.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#22

Post by isthisreality » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

isthisreality wrote: post #7

isthisreality wrote: post #3

Not a fan of "skyrocketed" in this headline. Just tell us the statistic.

> During February 21–March 20, 2021, suspected suicide attempt ED visits were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12–17 years than during the same period in 2019; among boys aged 12–17 years, suspected suicide attempt ED visits increased 3.7%. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm

Comparatively speaking, at least gender-wise, this data should be taken with a grain of salt.

Males are historically more effective at killing themselves. This data only looks at ED visits and you don't go to the hospital when you're clearly dead. And if you assume "suicide attempt" is using the technical definition [1], they're only looking at ED visits where the patient did not die.

Males aged 15 to 24 were 4x as likely to succeed in killing themselves in 2019. [2]

[1]: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide (see Definitions)

[2]: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/suicide (see Figure 2)

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#23

Post by throwawaysea » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

waynesonfire wrote: post #2

reddit removed this link due to not passing media bias.. interesting. https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaCoronavirus/comments/oqawe5/s...

A number of the biggest coronavirus subreddits also openly censor articles and ban users for the slightest violation of their biases. For example if you share articles or studies that suggest lockdowns are illogical, or that the virus may have originated from a lab leak, or that the infection fatality rate is low, you would see your discussions closed and potentially get a permanent ban from those subreddits. Perhaps the mods of some of these subreddits have relaxed things over time, but the rampant censorship practiced by mods on Reddit often creates echo chambers and prevents society from seeking the truth more efficiently.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#24

Post by prepend » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #21

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

I fear that it may be as simple as that. Because if that's the cause, I'm not sure we can fix it.

Pi-hole blocking Instagram works pretty well for me, although not perfectly.

We can also treat this like smoking and opioids and lawsuit/tax excessively instagram and use it to pay for public mental health services.

It seems like there will be a clear evidence trail that Instagram knowingly marketed and permitted use of their app by children under 13. So that’s some future administration/state AG payday, I think.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#25

Post by chrisseaton » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

brohee wrote: post #19

Do they have split stats for girls attending all girls school? Bullying is often the root cause of teenage suicide, and I wonder wether a mixed environment makes it better or worse...

All-girls schools are pretty rare in the US aren’t they?

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#26

Post by ianai » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

mprovost wrote: post #20

retrac wrote: post #16

There was something very off before the pandemic. Girls were already diverging sharply from the historical norm and from boys over the last few years: https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachme... "Sex- and Age-specific Increases in Suicide Attempts by Self-Poisoning in the United States among Youth and Young Adults from 2000 to 2018". It's disproportionately a specific method (poisoning) and it is…

Instagram was founded in 2010.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there.

I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#27

Post by wizzwizz4 » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

retrac wrote: post #13

mensetmanusman wrote: post #10

“ In writing this, I have found the surprising reverse correlation between suicidal behavior and time spent in school—both prior to the Covid-19 pandemic and during it—gnawing at me. Could it be that the pressures around school itself are among the most important stressors related to suicidality among teens? If that’s so, the underlying reasons could be related either to academic or social pressures. Regardless, no o…

Could that just be... delaying the inevitable? Sorry to phrase it like that. At some point your daughter has to come into contact with others. If it's a social effect -- and I suspect it is -- then exposure to the self-image issues, or bullying, or status competition, or whatever it is at work here, might just lead to suicides when exposed to these things in college, rather than in high school. While the focus is mos…

The school system is a highly abusive environment, in many places. Young adults doing meaningless busywork in a highly-restrictive environment with artificial social dynamics is bad enough without some of them being modelled off prisons.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#28

Post by retrac » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #24

retrac wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fear that it may be as simple as that. Because if that's the cause, I'm not sure we can fix it.

Pi-hole blocking Instagram works pretty well for me, although not perfectly. We can also treat this like smoking and opioids and lawsuit/tax excessively instagram and use it to pay for public mental health services. It seems like there will be a clear evidence trail that Instagram knowingly marketed and permitted use of their app by children under 13. So that’s some future administration/state AG payday, I think.

You are right. I should not be defeatist. If social media is truly ruining our mental health (it's not really an "if" anymore, is it?) then it is both reasonable and necessary to start doing something along those lines.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#29

Post by joezydeco » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

I witnessed this first hand. My daughter is in this age bracket and our school was 100% remote up until the spring of 2021. The return to school was hybrid, two days a week, and divided 50/50 by alphabet.

Her anxiety levels went through the roof. Thankfully we didn't get to an extreme case of suicidal ideation but things were pretty bad for a while. Medication has helped, but getting a therapist appointment is nearly impossible. They're 110% booked.

What we understand is that during the shutdown the 'alpha' girls all coalesced on social media and shut everyone else out. They also took vacations, had slumber parties, and did a ton of things that everyone else was avoiding because those families tried to listen to the current advice.

When the return to school happened these cliques instantly had fresh prey: the unconnected, the minorities, the non-english speakers, the ones that didn't purchase new clothing over the lockdown, the ones that didn't go to the slumber parties and vacations. And half of your friends/allies were in the other side of the alphabet and working from home.

This is all stuff that boys of this age don't care about. But the girls are vicious. Two of our friends have physically relocated out of the district, two others are going to change schools.

TLDR: Preteen girls are awful, and always have been, but the lockdown concentrated and amplified it to horrific proportions.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#30

Post by balfirevic » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #26

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

> or never

How does that work?