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What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

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Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#31

Post by allturtles »

13415 wrote: post #18

This is a really annoying and unnecessary article. It is based on some personal anecdote of someone who was fully vaccinated and got symptomatic Covid for 1 1/2 days that felt bad. Judging from the description in the article, it lasted shorter and was overall better than a common cold - not the flu, just a common cold we all have had before. Doctors also confirmed that it was a mild case. Yet the author goes on to pa…

> it lasted shorter and was overall better than a common cold

The illness was described as causing total debility for 36 hours, like food poisoning. That is much worse than a common cold, IMO, which generally doesn't stop me from doing any activity and is just a nuisance.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#32

Post by murgindrag »

lmilcin wrote: post #13
murgindrag wrote: post #2

I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. Whenever I read a sentence like "The goal was never to eradicate COVID from being annoying—it was to eradicate it from being a killer." Those same experts, a year ago, were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic. Same thing with vaccines. Yes, everyone should get vaccinated. Yes, we were given a ton of guidance that vaccines would stop the spread…

Getting rid of COVID became impossible the moment governments decided to wait with restrictions until there is enough cases. Now it is a bit too late to think about getting rid of it completely but the pandemic will not be over until people realize you can't lift restrictions until it is really over and that everybody needs to get vaccinated. Unfortunately, viruses are not politically motivated and are not swayed by…

> Oh my... it is not overselling. It is dealing with people like children they are. People reverted to the point where you can't have merit-based discussion about vaccines in public, and so simplifying the message is IMO the right strategy. > > The point is, vaccines work and the more people vaccinate the less will die and all other finer points are less important.

Repeating a point over and over, based on falsehoods, hasn't worked out very well either here or in global warming.

At some point, people notice you're lying. The conclusion might be correct, but if you get caught lying along the way, you undermine your case.

People didn't "revert." Years of this kind of oversimplification and "dealing with people like children they are" led to this ignorance. And in a rapidly-evolving situation like COVID19, this ignorance sometimes ends up biting you just months later. In my community, vaccine efficacy is well below 70%. People don't believe that since we've had months of messaging.

Yes, I do think we would have higher vaccination rates if we stopped patronizing people, and started educating them.

No time like the present to start.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#33

Post by murgindrag »

datad wrote: post #12
zarzavat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The level of discourse and critical thinking in the mainstream media is made for uneducated people who don't understand even basic biology. There is a certain breed of scientist that just spouts bullshit. Unfortunately the media is so obsessed with "narratives" that it will seek these people out (and these bullshit artists seek out the media) so all nuance is lost. The moral of the story is, don't let other people do…

The average person has no ability to understand lipid nano particles. Many scientists and most doctors do not understand, so how is the average dolt like me going to figure it all out?

I think the bigger problem is exponentials, rates of change, and control systems.

Right now, we lock down when numbers get high, and open up when numbers get low.

There's about a month lag between actions and hopsitalizations, so we act on month-old data. We don't look at rates-of-growth. This results in a roller-coaster.

We ought to take whatever measures we need to keep R0<1.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#34

Post by 13415 »

allturtles wrote: post #31
13415 wrote: post #18

This is a really annoying and unnecessary article. It is based on some personal anecdote of someone who was fully vaccinated and got symptomatic Covid for 1 1/2 days that felt bad. Judging from the description in the article, it lasted shorter and was overall better than a common cold - not the flu, just a common cold we all have had before. Doctors also confirmed that it was a mild case. Yet the author goes on to pa…

> it lasted shorter and was overall better than a common cold The illness was described as causing total debility for 36 hours, like food poisoning. That is much worse than a common cold, IMO, which generally doesn't stop me from doing any activity and is just a nuisance.

Maybe you're personally blessed with a super-strong immune system but what you're describing is not the usual common cold. A common cold takes around 9 days, and most people have to spend and are recommended to spend 3 of those in bed. Most common colds can develop into deadly pneumonia if you take them too lightly. A colleague of my girlfriend nearly died of one in 2018 because he ignored it and went out partying...

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#35

Post by rsynnott »

datad wrote: post #12
zarzavat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The level of discourse and critical thinking in the mainstream media is made for uneducated people who don't understand even basic biology. There is a certain breed of scientist that just spouts bullshit. Unfortunately the media is so obsessed with "narratives" that it will seek these people out (and these bullshit artists seek out the media) so all nuance is lost. The moral of the story is, don't let other people do…

The average person has no ability to understand lipid nano particles. Many scientists and most doctors do not understand, so how is the average dolt like me going to figure it all out?

You don't need to know about lipid nanoparticles; they're an implementation detail.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#36

Post by lamontcg »

murgindrag wrote: post #2

I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. Whenever I read a sentence like "The goal was never to eradicate COVID from being annoying—it was to eradicate it from being a killer." Those same experts, a year ago, were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic. Same thing with vaccines. Yes, everyone should get vaccinated. Yes, we were given a ton of guidance that vaccines would stop the spread…

> were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic.

no they weren't. endemic disease and booster shots every year or three were always on the table from the start.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#37

Post by purple_ferret »

Zababa wrote: post #14

> They even went to a hockey game indoors with thousands of people. > Mostly, he felt frustrated. He’s a journalist—he’s pretty tuned in to the news. He knew breakthrough cases were possible, but he had seen many assurances that they were extremely rare and not that big of a deal. > He would have worn a mask at the hockey game, for example—even though no one was wearing a mask at the hockey game, and the Centers for…

If you're vaccinated and have been for months, you have to ask yourself when you're going to get back to normal because Covid isn't going to go away.

So it's perfectly reasonable to think now is as safe as it's ever going to be.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#38

Post by purple_ferret »

goes_brrrrrr wrote: post #22
Zababa wrote: post #14

> They even went to a hockey game indoors with thousands of people. > Mostly, he felt frustrated. He’s a journalist—he’s pretty tuned in to the news. He knew breakthrough cases were possible, but he had seen many assurances that they were extremely rare and not that big of a deal. > He would have worn a mask at the hockey game, for example—even though no one was wearing a mask at the hockey game, and the Centers for…

The CDC says it's safe because they are trying to "nudge" the public into getting vaccinated with a positive incentive - getting rid of the mask. This whole pandemic the CDC proved that it cant think more than one step ahead. Just like it was advising against wearing masks because it was afraid of them being unavailable to health workers. So the CDC credibility will take yet another hit after it insisted so hard that…

It's safe because you're unlikely to get hospitalized. It's as safe as it's going to get, unless you commit to booster vaccines every six months. Nothing nefarious in their logic.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#39

Post by Zababa »

purple_ferret wrote: post #37
Zababa wrote: post #14

> They even went to a hockey game indoors with thousands of people. > Mostly, he felt frustrated. He’s a journalist—he’s pretty tuned in to the news. He knew breakthrough cases were possible, but he had seen many assurances that they were extremely rare and not that big of a deal. > He would have worn a mask at the hockey game, for example—even though no one was wearing a mask at the hockey game, and the Centers for…

If you're vaccinated and have been for months, you have to ask yourself when you're going to get back to normal because Covid isn't going to go away. So it's perfectly reasonable to think now is as safe as it's ever going to be.

No, it's not perfectly reasonable, because of things like variants, non vaccinated people, and things like that. You could also make the argument that there will be no "going back to normal". Perhaps wearing masks will become more of a thing when there is a risk.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#40

Post by allturtles »

13415 wrote: post #34
allturtles wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it lasted shorter and was overall better than a common cold The illness was described as causing total debility for 36 hours, like food poisoning. That is much worse than a common cold, IMO, which generally doesn't stop me from doing any activity and is just a nuisance.

Maybe you're personally blessed with a super-strong immune system but what you're describing is not the usual common cold. A common cold takes around 9 days, and most people have to spend and are recommended to spend 3 of those in bed. Most common colds can develop into deadly pneumonia if you take them too lightly. A colleague of my girlfriend nearly died of one in 2018 because he ignored it and went out partying...

I don't know what to say except to appeal to my own experience. I've never heard of anyone I know being confined to bed by a common cold, nor getting pneumonia from one.

9 days maybe of lingering cough and sniffles, the worst of it is typically over in 3 days or so.

> colleague of my girlfriend nearly died of one in 2018 because he ignored it and went out partying...

Which suggests a mild illness? (The cold, not the pneumonia). You literally can't go out partying when you are really ill.

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