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What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

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Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#11

Post by datad »

hindsightbias wrote: post #6
murgindrag wrote: post #2

I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. Whenever I read a sentence like "The goal was never to eradicate COVID from being annoying—it was to eradicate it from being a killer." Those same experts, a year ago, were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic. Same thing with vaccines. Yes, everyone should get vaccinated. Yes, we were given a ton of guidance that vaccines would stop the spread…

Not. Fauci a year ago: Infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday he believes the world will “get control of” Covid-19, but “I don’t really see us eradicating it,” expressing a view in line with public health experts—but directly contradicting President Donald Trump’s claims made as recently as Tuesday that the virus will “disappear” https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/07/22/contrad...

But he has dangled the goal of herd immunity, while gradually upping the percentage of vaccination required to get there. Herd immunity to many people means “eradication” and the media has helped foster that belief.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#12

Post by datad »

zarzavat wrote: post #10
murgindrag wrote: post #2

I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. Whenever I read a sentence like "The goal was never to eradicate COVID from being annoying—it was to eradicate it from being a killer." Those same experts, a year ago, were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic. Same thing with vaccines. Yes, everyone should get vaccinated. Yes, we were given a ton of guidance that vaccines would stop the spread…

The level of discourse and critical thinking in the mainstream media is made for uneducated people who don't understand even basic biology. There is a certain breed of scientist that just spouts bullshit. Unfortunately the media is so obsessed with "narratives" that it will seek these people out (and these bullshit artists seek out the media) so all nuance is lost. The moral of the story is, don't let other people do…

The average person has no ability to understand lipid nano particles. Many scientists and most doctors do not understand, so how is the average dolt like me going to figure it all out?

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#13

Post by lmilcin »

murgindrag wrote: post #2

I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. Whenever I read a sentence like "The goal was never to eradicate COVID from being annoying—it was to eradicate it from being a killer." Those same experts, a year ago, were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic. Same thing with vaccines. Yes, everyone should get vaccinated. Yes, we were given a ton of guidance that vaccines would stop the spread…

Getting rid of COVID became impossible the moment governments decided to wait with restrictions until there is enough cases.

Now it is a bit too late to think about getting rid of it completely but the pandemic will not be over until people realize you can't lift restrictions until it is really over and that everybody needs to get vaccinated.

Unfortunately, viruses are not politically motivated and are not swayed by fake news.

Rather than bitchin at liberals or conservatives, better read up on what people who really know something about viruses say.

> overselling vaccines

Oh my... it is not overselling. It is dealing with people like children they are. People reverted to the point where you can't have merit-based discussion about vaccines in public, and so simplifying the message is IMO the right strategy.

The point is, vaccines work and the more people vaccinate the less will die and all other finer points are less important.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#14

Post by Zababa »

> They even went to a hockey game indoors with thousands of people.

> Mostly, he felt frustrated. He’s a journalist—he’s pretty tuned in to the news. He knew breakthrough cases were possible, but he had seen many assurances that they were extremely rare and not that big of a deal.

> He would have worn a mask at the hockey game, for example—even though no one was wearing a mask at the hockey game, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said it’s fine for vaccinated people not to wear masks inside.

I honestly don't know what to say. I've been following COVID on and off for the last year and half, and there's no way that I would see going to a hockey match with thousands of people inside without a mask as safe. The CDC says it's safe? Sure, and the WHO said that masks were useless at the beginning of the pandemic. At some point, you have to learn to think for yourself. Big organisms like the CDC and the WHO have others incentives than keeping you perfectly healthy. I don't want to sound too harsh, and I understand the frustration. But please develop a bit of critical thinking. Especially if you're a journalist.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#15

Post by lmilcin »

datad wrote: post #11
hindsightbias wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not. Fauci a year ago: Infectious disease expert Dr. Anthony Fauci said Wednesday he believes the world will “get control of” Covid-19, but “I don’t really see us eradicating it,” expressing a view in line with public health experts—but directly contradicting President Donald Trump’s claims made as recently as Tuesday that the virus will “disappear” https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2020/07/22/contrad...

But he has dangled the goal of herd immunity, while gradually upping the percentage of vaccination required to get there. Herd immunity to many people means “eradication” and the media has helped foster that belief.

The percentage required was never a solid number in the first place and the shift is due to our better knowledge of the virus and the new strains that necessitate higher vaccination rate.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#16

Post by jdhn »

ptcrash wrote: post #8
jdhn wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. The goalposts have been moving ever since we were told "only 2 weeks to stop the spread".

When did anyone say "2 weeks to stop the spread" I remember "2 Weeks to slow the curve" and Trump's "15 days to slow the spread" but I don't remember anyone ever saying eradication was simply 2 weeks of lockdown away. Even if it was as simple as 2 weeks away, many people chose to ignore the stay-at-home orders, so it's not really achievable. I think you're confusing 'moving goal posts' with constant failure to reach…

Stop the spread, slow the spread, the idea was that by doing just 2 weeks of isolation, everything would be manageable. This has really not been achieved anywhere in the world anywhere else other than New Zealand, and at what cost?

>I think you're confusing 'moving goal posts' with constant failure to reach a goal followed by readjustment to new data.

No, I don't think I am. That is a textbook definition of moving the goalposts.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#17

Post by datad »

lmilcin wrote: post #15
datad wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he has dangled the goal of herd immunity, while gradually upping the percentage of vaccination required to get there. Herd immunity to many people means “eradication” and the media has helped foster that belief.

The percentage required was never a solid number in the first place and the shift is due to our better knowledge of the virus and the new strains that necessitate higher vaccination rate.

My friend, that’s the definition of moving goalposts. But of course everything changes over time, as it should. Are we still trying to reach herd immunity? What percentage vaccinated would be required for that? Two questions for you to research.

Edit: Do we have enough doses even today to vaccinate everyone, worldwide? I think we do not.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#18

Post by 13415 »

This is a really annoying and unnecessary article. It is based on some personal anecdote of someone who was fully vaccinated and got symptomatic Covid for 1 1/2 days that felt bad. Judging from the description in the article, it lasted shorter and was overall better than a common cold - not the flu, just a common cold we all have had before. Doctors also confirmed that it was a mild case. Yet the author goes on to paint some kind of bleak picture. I can't really see why. The case described illustrates how vaccines worked as intended. Yes, vaccinated people should probably wear masks in closed confined spaces. But if so, not because of personal risks involved in getting infected as a vaccinated person but rather to limit infections of non-vaccinated with the Delta variant. The same is true for social distancing (with moderation) and washing hands.

AFAIK, the risk of dying or getting serious complication for fully vaccinated people is currently very low. Maybe future mutations change that but it doesn't look like it. If you insist on worrying about something, then worry about enough volunteers for vaccinations, enough vaccines for poorer countries, or getting refresher vaccinations once they are due.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#19

Post by lmilcin »

datad wrote: post #17
lmilcin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage required was never a solid number in the first place and the shift is due to our better knowledge of the virus and the new strains that necessitate higher vaccination rate.

My friend, that’s the definition of moving goalposts. But of course everything changes over time, as it should. Are we still trying to reach herd immunity? What percentage vaccinated would be required for that? Two questions for you to research. Edit: Do we have enough doses even today to vaccinate everyone, worldwide? I think we do not.

Well, I am not your friend. I am very particular about who my friends are.

As to goalposts, the goalposts moved themselves. If everybody vaccinated when they had a chance there would not be any talk of goalposts.

Instead we will have more millions of people die because couple people died of vaccine and everybody else does not understand law of large numbers.

Re: What vaccinated people should know about their risk from the delta varian

#20

Post by datad »

lmilcin wrote: post #13
murgindrag wrote: post #2

I feel like the goal posts are moving with lightening speed. Whenever I read a sentence like "The goal was never to eradicate COVID from being annoying—it was to eradicate it from being a killer." Those same experts, a year ago, were assuring us that COVID would never become endemic. Same thing with vaccines. Yes, everyone should get vaccinated. Yes, we were given a ton of guidance that vaccines would stop the spread…

Getting rid of COVID became impossible the moment governments decided to wait with restrictions until there is enough cases. Now it is a bit too late to think about getting rid of it completely but the pandemic will not be over until people realize you can't lift restrictions until it is really over and that everybody needs to get vaccinated. Unfortunately, viruses are not politically motivated and are not swayed by…

“ Getting rid of COVID became impossible the moment governments decided to wait with restrictions until there is enough cases.”

No, Chinese government stalled, suppressed doctors and scientists who were screaming out about the virus months, literally, before anybody outside the Chinese government was aware. That’s a matter of record and easily verified.

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