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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#501

Post by bookofsand »

JPKab wrote: post #481
cmh89 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people recognize that the SAT is bias against poor kids https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/07/why-po... The reason that the racial component comes out is that Black children are over-represented in poor communities due to systemic racism

The confidence with which you assert "systemic racism" as being the key factor causing Black kids to be overrepresented in poor communities is fascinating. Historical racism, which was woven into law, is the actual reason for this. Historical factors are also why White southerners are overrepresented in poverty statistics compared to Whites in the midwest and New England. Historical racism isn't the same thing as the…

For a less US-centric perspective, regional differentials in development persist even for countries with 'homogenous' populations. Italy is a canonical example, with significant differences between the rich North and the poor South. By US ethnic standards, Northern and Southern Italians are basically indistinguishable clones, though Italians themselves may beg to differ. See also Germany, Belgium, Poland or Romania.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_Italian_regio...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_states_by_GRP_p...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Belgian_provinces_by_G...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_A_and_B

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Romania_-_Nominal_GD...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#502

Post by [deleted] »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #414
cmh89 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there are issues with GPA too, but despite saying that it's easier to take one test than it is to maintain a high GPA throughout high school, that's opinion. Teachers can work with over extended students to help them while they are in school I can't really speak to your opinion piece because its behind a paywall

It's written by a contributer to the National Review, if that helps you decide whether you're missing out on anything important: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/05/national-review-william-...

[deleted]

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#503

Post by chillwaves »

livinginfear wrote: post #495
mrh0057 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement immediately has a problem. How do you define success? Then you have a second problem when you state a person taking one test is also good on a different test. Going much over 100 has little correlation with wealth which is what most studies use. Then you run into correlation doesn’t equal causation problem too.

> " How do you define success?" Surely you jest. It really doesn't matter how you define success, IQ is a valid predictor of pretty much any definition of success you can think of. Income, academic achievement, you name it.

Defining IQ is tricky to begin with. So is defining success.

Do you really not see the issue?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#504

Post by maroonblazer »

dcow wrote: post #343
908B64B197 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

No it shouldn't, but as a society we seem to want it to so it does. Sowell has an interesting take on AA and believes it actually does more harm than good because it pits those subject to it against scenarios they have not been prepared to handle and thus in turn results in over-stress, higher rates of failure, and ultimately disillusionment.

I thought AA meant that, when given two equally qualified applicants, where one is caucasian and the other is a minority, the seat should go to the minority.

In light of that, Sowell's take makes no sense.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#505

Post by plandis »

flowerlad wrote: post #180

In most countries students apply to just 1 or 2 colleges. Because college admissions are predictable in other countries. In the US students apply to a dozen or more colleges, and each college requires custom essays. Then these applications go through "holistic reviews". In reality, because of the huge volume of applications, colleges spend 6 to 8 minutes reviewing each application, and the reviewer is often an inexpe…

I don’t know if it’s changed but when I was applying for colleges in 2007 many of them used the same application process called the “common app”. Any university using that meant you only had to fill out information once, including essays, and then you could send out the same application to multiple universities.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#506

Post by UncleMeat »

dcow wrote: post #368
dcow wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it shouldn't, but as a society we seem to want it to so it does. Sowell has an interesting take on AA and believes it actually does more harm than good because it pits those subject to it against scenarios they have not been prepared to handle and thus in turn results in over-stress, higher rates of failure, and ultimately disillusionment.

The means at which we arrive upon AA is even suspect: A: We want equality, why are white people successful? B: Clearly because they went to a good college. C: Okay easy, let’s put the underprivileged into good colleges, that should fix ‘er right up. It doesn't seem like anybody is interested in solving the hard problem of why underprivileged communities aren’t producing good high school graduates. Maybe it has someth…

> It doesn't seem like anybody is interested in solving the hard problem of why underprivileged communities aren’t producing good high school graduates.

The same people who are seeking equity in college are seeking it in high school and elementary school and preschool. The same opponents and arguments come out against them at all of these phases.

I have personal experience with this work in both the elementary school and high school levels. What you are saying here is simply false.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#508

Post by diognesofsinope »

frankfrankfrank wrote: post #197
ethbr0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reducing its rank Do universities exist for students? Or do students exist for universities? I'm sure university administration believe the latter, but given that they're supported by the state (in UT's case, ~25% of their budget?) there's a pretty strong argument that they owe the people of the state education.

now you are starting to ask extremely uncomfortable questions for the higher education cabal. Unfortunately, what I suspect is going on with all this high minded "get rid of the SATs" is really going to at least help the universities combat what was an increasing pressure to do pre and post testing to validate or establish the value of a university's program. You cannot as easily gain useful information if you have n…

Exactly! It's about reducing evidence and accountability, along with increasing enrollment ($).

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#509

Post by junar »

google234123 wrote: post #453
jbluepolarbear wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took the SAT the first year they added the essay. It wasn’t optional and they had no accommodations for people with disabilities. I would have much rather had a score of 1500/1600 than the dumb 1700/2400 I got.

I dont think the essay can bring down the score that much.

Seconding this. The former Writing section was not just the essay: it also had multiple-choice questions. Effectively, the essay itself was worth between 100 and 200 points, and the multiple-choice made up the rest.

https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-score-chart-raw-score-conve...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#510

Post by 908B64B197 »

maroonblazer wrote: post #504
dcow wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it shouldn't, but as a society we seem to want it to so it does. Sowell has an interesting take on AA and believes it actually does more harm than good because it pits those subject to it against scenarios they have not been prepared to handle and thus in turn results in over-stress, higher rates of failure, and ultimately disillusionment.

I thought AA meant that, when given two equally qualified applicants, where one is caucasian and the other is a minority, the seat should go to the minority. In light of that, Sowell's take makes no sense.

> given two equally qualified applicants

I wonder if that push toward diminishing the impact of measurable, standardized testing isn't an attempts at generating more "equally qualified applicants"

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