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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#411

Post by cmh89 »

JPKab wrote: post #401
cmh89 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deciding whether or not the SAT is equitable, fair, or valuable shouldn't have any anecdotal component. For every one person with a story like yours, there is someone who had a bad experience with it for reasons outside of their control. I did exceptionally well in take home or book assignments because I understand the subject matter, but never was a good test taker. I took the ACT and did 'fine' but I could have don…

The SAT is an extremely high predictor for IQ. It correlates incredibly well. I grew up in a trailer park, and didn't have access to the test prep industry, so I understand that wealthier kids had a big edge. That being said, nobody is talking about the SAT being biased against poor kids. They are pretending that it's purely a racist, culturally-biased test due to its outcome of having average scores that are hundred…

Plenty of people recognize that the SAT is bias against poor kids

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/07/why-po...

The reason that the racial component comes out is that Black children are over-represented in poor communities due to systemic racism

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#412

Post by rejectedandsad »

briefcomment wrote: post #407
rejectedandsad wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not good enough to get into any top school, and top 2% is simply not good enough when it’s effectively the same as the top 20%.

It's definitely in range [1]. You could also consider retaking it, or taking the GMAT, LSAT, or GRE. [1] https://www.thoughtco.com/sat-scores-for-ivy-league-admissio...

That range includes triple legacies, Jared Kushner types and recruited athletes. I doubt it’s applicable to people like me.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#413

Post by waterhouse »

908B64B197 wrote: post #395
klipt wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're Asian, in which case declaring your race will lower your admission chances even relative to white people.

I recall hearing in casual conversation "ohh this guy is Asian and went to X so you know he's good". I was shocked. It must create a weird dynamic to have two identifiable groups where you know one got there on merit alone, while the other one maybe benefited from a quota.

Absolutely. This is one of the reasons affirmative action is poisonous—it creates rational reasons for discrimination. Which will, of course, be exaggerated by actual racists; but it's much harder to argue "Discriminating against group X is bad" when it's public knowledge that group X has passed a lower bar.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#414

Post by ZeroGravitas »

cmh89 wrote: post #410
rayiner wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kid working 25 hours a week to help their family make rent is going to have an easier time buckling down for one test than keeping up their GPA over four years. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2021/03/23/sta...

I agree that there are issues with GPA too, but despite saying that it's easier to take one test than it is to maintain a high GPA throughout high school, that's opinion. Teachers can work with over extended students to help them while they are in school I can't really speak to your opinion piece because its behind a paywall

It's written by a contributer to the National Review, if that helps you decide whether you're missing out on anything important:

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/05/national-review-william-...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#415

Post by jbluepolarbear »

dragontamer wrote: post #394
jbluepolarbear wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took the SAT the first year they added the essay. It wasn’t optional and they had no accommodations for people with disabilities. I would have much rather had a score of 1500/1600 than the dumb 1700/2400 I got.

You should have been like me and... 1. Take the test the year before they added the essay, so you'd have the "non-essay" exam grade recorded. Even if you were in 9th or 10th grade, that's still useful. 2. Take the test again with the essay. But when you do so, have AP classes worth of "knowing how to write against a graded rubric" experience so that you beat everyone else's writing score. (Thank you AP World History…

I have illegible hand writing. I was able to type all other standard tests I had taken up to that point. How was I supposed to know that they changed the test? When I signed up there was no mention of the essay and a lot of kids were surprised by the essay at the time of the test. I’m sure I would have rocked the essay had I been able to type it. I planned to major in English because i enjoyed writing. I haven’t written for fun since that test.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#416

Post by TchoBeer »

Y_Y wrote: post #249
1980phipsi wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a weighted GPA... Also, GPA is not a great measure of student quality. IRT [1,2] is better. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/1434976 [2] https://digitalcommons.macalester.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?ar...

Is student quality a well-defined and measurable value? Is it a scalar?

How well they do in college, I'd presume.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#417

Post by dragontamer »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #415
dragontamer wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should have been like me and... 1. Take the test the year before they added the essay, so you'd have the "non-essay" exam grade recorded. Even if you were in 9th or 10th grade, that's still useful. 2. Take the test again with the essay. But when you do so, have AP classes worth of "knowing how to write against a graded rubric" experience so that you beat everyone else's writing score. (Thank you AP World History…

I have illegible hand writing. I was able to type all other standard tests I had taken up to that point. How was I supposed to know that they changed the test? When I signed up there was no mention of the essay and a lot of kids were surprised by the essay at the time of the test. I’m sure I would have rocked the essay had I been able to type it. I planned to major in English because i enjoyed writing. I haven’t writ…

Its so weird to hear that.

My entire college-bound peer group took the SAT twice, once without the essay and once with the essay. Literally all of us, every single friend/acquaintance in my year. Most of us took the PSAT (practice SAT) to get used to the "timing" of multiple choice. (When you're low on time, its time to start guessing and moving way quicker)

The exceptions were the military dudes, who left for the Iraq / Afghanistan wars. So they had no need to take the SATs.

We all were worried about how the essay would be graded, whether or not colleges would accept the essay score, or whatever. Some of us even took alternative tests (ACT) in addition to the SAT (I only took the SAT twice).

For us, the essay thing was announced long-in-advance and we literally strategized our college acceptance plans around it. I don't know who figured out the essay announcement, but... it was very well known in my bubble.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#419

Post by lokar »

djrogers wrote: post #342
lokar wrote: post #6

There is no real evidence for the idea that a difference in scores predicts a difference in performance, once you are above some threshold. They should keep the test, but use a threshold (per major and school) with a lottery for everyone above the threshold. And admit a small number below at random to keep evaluating what the threshold should be.

> There is no real evidence for the idea that a difference in scores predicts a difference in performance, Except for the gigantic study commissioned by the UC system the article references? “ Second, while high-school GPA has been found to be more predictive of success at college than standardized test scores at some schools, the exact opposite turns out to be true for students at UC schools. There, standardized tes…

That is over a wide range. Someone who scores 15 points higher is no more likely to do well. It's not a good ranking function

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#420

Post by cmh89 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #414
cmh89 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there are issues with GPA too, but despite saying that it's easier to take one test than it is to maintain a high GPA throughout high school, that's opinion. Teachers can work with over extended students to help them while they are in school I can't really speak to your opinion piece because its behind a paywall

It's written by a contributer to the National Review, if that helps you decide whether you're missing out on anything important: https://theintercept.com/2020/07/05/national-review-william-...

Ah, so it's the digital equivalent of trying to read soiled toilet paper. Got it
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