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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#451

Post by dragonwriter »

temp8964 wrote: post #443
BitwiseFool wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually had a few Pacific Islanders express anxiety with selecting "Asian American/Pacific Islander" because they were worried that identifying as such would subject them to more competition. They were advised to do it anyways.

I read somewhere says "Asian American/Pacific Islander" is a totally made up term by the federal government and basically has no root in reality.

All human “races” are social constructs with no basis in reality other than the social perceptions of the group delineating them.

So, yeah, that's true of API, but its just as true of, say, White.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#453

Post by google234123 »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #365
starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

I took the SAT the first year they added the essay. It wasn’t optional and they had no accommodations for people with disabilities. I would have much rather had a score of 1500/1600 than the dumb 1700/2400 I got.

I dont think the essay can bring down the score that much.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#454

Post by mannerheim »

nonameiguess wrote: post #432
908B64B197 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

This article is specifically about the UC system, which has been banned by Proposition 209 since 1996 from considering an applicant's race when making admissions decisions. It might matter at private schools or in other states, though. It might surprise people who only know California by reputation and assume it is completely full of raging lefties, but affirmative action measures have been pretty soundly rejected by…

California has a significant Asian population. In my experience, many older Chinese Americans are completely apolitical, but one thing they do care about is that their children get into a good college. They exerted significant pressure the last time repealing Prop 209 was proposed by calling and writing their elected officials.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#455

Post by freeopinion »

rodonn wrote: post #431
stanford_labrat wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like my school district. Freshman were technically banned from taking AP classes (but of course, some parents spoke to the school and thus they were allowed in). And naturally the valedictorian 3 years later was one of the 4 that was able to get into an AP class freshman year. I always felt quite vindicated when I got my class rank (8/432) even though I had a "normal" schedule. 0, 3, 6, 7 APs. I even took a fr…

I had a similar situation at my school where I was valedictorian because there are 2 Latin language APs vs. only 1 for most of the other foreign languages.

Try living in a rural area where some kid took all 5 AP classes offered, and all 8 Honors classes. They've been #1 throughout high school. Then somebody moves in from a school that offered more than 5 AP classes. Suddenly the kid who did everything possible didn't do enough.

Or the student who was tied for #1 when the school decided they wouldn't accept ties. So they did pole vault scoring and reached back to kindergarten to see who got the first B.

In academics as in sports and all other pursuits, sometimes you just have to be satisfied with excellence regardless of trophies.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#456

Post by foofoo4u »

It may sound noble to increase admissions for "marginalized" demographics into the most prestigious universities that California has to offer. But this has the real implication of setting these students up for failure. California's UCs demand the utmost of studious conduct. The SAT is one of the best ways of determining whether a student will succeed in such environments. But with the removal of it, we will see an influx of students who will become overwhelmed by the expectations placed upon them. Math will be too complex. Literature will be difficult to comprehend. Writing and spelling will be subpar. Fellow students will resent them in group projects for dragging down their grades. These initially excited diverse students will find themselves struggling. They will lose motivation. They will likely drop out when feeling such despair. They will find themselves with no degree and settled with tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt. In effect, they will be in a worse situation than if they were properly selected for a school that they will thrive in.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#457

Post by cactus2093 »

jbluepolarbear wrote: post #365
starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

I took the SAT the first year they added the essay. It wasn’t optional and they had no accommodations for people with disabilities. I would have much rather had a score of 1500/1600 than the dumb 1700/2400 I got.

Same, we must be about the same age, but interestingly I had the opposite experience there. That newly added section was only partly the essay and the other part was grammar. I got a pretty mediocre score on the essay and thought it would bring down my score but I did perfect on the grammar and got the full 800 points for the section.

In addition to disability issues you point out, I would expect that there was also a very strong racial/class correlation with that section. I'm from a middle class white family and my parents both went to college and speak "proper" english with minimal slang. I didn't study at all the for the grammar section and just chose the option that sounded right to me and I aced it. I'm sure it was more difficult for people from communities that speak different dialects/vernacular.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#458

Post by Spooky23 »

dcow wrote: post #368
dcow wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it shouldn't, but as a society we seem to want it to so it does. Sowell has an interesting take on AA and believes it actually does more harm than good because it pits those subject to it against scenarios they have not been prepared to handle and thus in turn results in over-stress, higher rates of failure, and ultimately disillusionment.

The means at which we arrive upon AA is even suspect: A: We want equality, why are white people successful? B: Clearly because they went to a good college. C: Okay easy, let’s put the underprivileged into good colleges, that should fix ‘er right up. It doesn't seem like anybody is interested in solving the hard problem of why underprivileged communities aren’t producing good high school graduates. Maybe it has someth…

Sociologists or whatever correlate good outcome with education. 90% of rich people went to college, therefore college good. That’s true, but one dimensional.

I coach little league, and have been following a group of now ten year olds since 2016 or so. They are all awesome, but the cracks that come from family life and environment are starting to show up. I fear for a few of them.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#459

Post by settrans »

iammisc wrote: post #275
settrans wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would someone who is downvote-burying these comments care to explain their distaste? Irrespective of whether you agree with Sowell's viewpoints, they are articulate and seem germane to the conversation.

The distaste is a black man who is a republican. That is all there is to it. Ask any non-white republican, and you will understand. The hate dished out towards us is on a level white republicans never see (not that they should... it's absolutely ridiculous). Accusations of 'Uncle Tom', 'race traitor', etc are common. When the various racial groups organize anywhere, and you volunteer your time with them, they silence…

Cornel West's resignation[0] seems to lend credence to your viewpoint.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2021/07/13/1015632217/cornel-west-has-an...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#460

Post by temp8964 »

cmh89 wrote: post #411
JPKab wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT is an extremely high predictor for IQ. It correlates incredibly well. I grew up in a trailer park, and didn't have access to the test prep industry, so I understand that wealthier kids had a big edge. That being said, nobody is talking about the SAT being biased against poor kids. They are pretending that it's purely a racist, culturally-biased test due to its outcome of having average scores that are hundred…

Plenty of people recognize that the SAT is bias against poor kids https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/07/why-po... The reason that the racial component comes out is that Black children are over-represented in poor communities due to systemic racism

What? The article you linked does not address SAT at all!
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