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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#351

Post by BitwiseFool »

908B64B197 wrote: post #340
starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

My high-school's college admissions advisors told us, in no uncertain terms, if you are non-white or mixed race, make sure you declare that because it will help your chances.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#352

Post by aynyc »

shawndrost wrote: post #276

In this article about the impacts of dropping the SAT, I would hope to find a coherent analysis of the impacts of that policy vs. the status quo. Unfortunately, that analysis seems internally inconsistent: "In short, this decision will probably hurt thousands of Asian American teenagers, backfire for Black, Latino, and low-income students, and make little difference for affluent whites." Wait a second. If this policy…

Middle class blacks and Latinos, as well as women.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#353

Post by mattmcknight »

sokoloff wrote: post #78
Causality1 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wouldn't be a good thing? Students are assigned to schools based on their address. To put their kid in a bad school would require moving into a bad neighborhood. That means the poor town gets more tax money, which all the students benefit from.

The overwhelming majority of towns do not impose an income tax and presumably the property tax would be the same regardless of whether a "typical" or "college admissions gaming" resident lived there. The only small difference in tax income to the town would be any minuscule difference in excise taxes on vehicles or local sales tax. Do you have a larger difference in tax income to the town in mind that I'm not seeing?

Not to mention that you could just rent an apartment in that area to get an address and drive your kid to school.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#354

Post by sam-2727 »

pfisherman wrote: post #15

I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities. As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in…

I'm skeptical of how egalitarian the top 6% (for UT Austin) policy actually is. All this does is guarantee you admission to the university, not a specific major. So, while you can gain admission easily to a liberal arts major, you aren't guaranteed admission to a STEM major and will still have to be a competitive applicant to gain admission into a STEM major.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#355

Post by mcguire »

jeffbee wrote: post #204
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Texas resident (born here and also graduated from high school in Texas) and would like to point out that it's not just UT, every state school (the other big ones with a decent amount of competition are Texas Tech and Texas A&M) follows this policy. In actuality, it appears that because the demand is so high for UT they have had to lower the number to 6%: https://news.utexas.edu/key-issues/top-10-percent-law/ T…

Aside from quantization errors for high school classes with fewer than 16 students, why would it be easier to get the top 6% in a rural school?

A typical rural school attracts students based on proximity---if you're living in that district, you go to that school, no matter how much your parents make or whether they're lawyers or a convenience store clerk. (Additionally, the residents of the area are typically less interested in education, rather than getting a job or playing sports.)

In an urban area, residential areas are typically segregated by wealth, and wealthier parents want their kids to go to good schools. Further, they are capable of moving within the area so that their children go to good schools. As a result, the competition among students for the top N% more fierce due to the pre-selection of students.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#356

Post by mcguire »

Manuel_D wrote: post #67
rootusrootus wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's an upside if you're looking to be equitable.

Not necessarily. Wealthier parents are more mobile, and can move residences such that their children are in the top 10%.

If you ever find a case of a wealthy family moving to a rural area to improve their children's chances of getting into a state school, please let us know.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#357

Post by Spivak »

paulpauper wrote: post #350
starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

Agree. when we hear about 'promoting opportunity' , what they mean is is we need more of groups X and Y and less Z. Motte and bailey at its finest.

Any change to the college admissions process will positively affect some groups and negatively affect others.

There will always be some controversy over whether any change actually makes it fairer or whether the changes were made to achieve a specific outcome.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#358

Post by netr0ute »

sokoloff wrote: post #293
rejectedandsad wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DE Shaw rejected me after I submitted my SATs (not once, but twice). What even is the point of living if society deems people like me to be inherently inferior for life ?

Almost no place has this (fairly pointless IMO) policy in place. How predictive is the SAT test I took when I was 16 to my performance on the job a decade later?

You can actually take the SAT at any age, so I'd say there's no reason to not try and get a high score.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#359

Post by mcguire »

mattpratt wrote: post #51
pfisherman wrote: post #15

I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities. As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in…

I'd point out that this only guarantees you admission into the general studies / undeclared school. It can still be difficult and competitive to get into the engineering or business school for example. A law was passed in 2009 for the University of Texas specifically, that stated "the university must automatically admit enough students to fill 75 percent of available Texas resident spaces" [1]. That 10% number has dw…

At the time I entered UT Austin, in 1986, they had that 10% policy---it's how I got in. Some programs (nursing and business are the two I remember) had competitive admissions, though, but that was for sophomores or juniors.

The University had 50,000 students at that time. During my time there, they were constantly trying to find a way to reduce that number and succeeded at some point, so the 2009 law may have been a result.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#360

Post by klipt »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #351
908B64B197 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

My high-school's college admissions advisors told us, in no uncertain terms, if you are non-white or mixed race, make sure you declare that because it will help your chances.

Unless you're Asian, in which case declaring your race will lower your admission chances even relative to white people.
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