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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 647 posts

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#11
Thomas Sowell has broken this down very well over the last 50 years.

https://www.hoover.org/research/affirmative-action-around-wo...

https://www.commentary.org/articles/thomas-sowell-2/affirmat...

And of course the Bible on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Discrimination-Disparities-Thomas-Sow...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#12
Isn't GPA even easier to game than SATs?

-- Private schools can curve more leniently so its pay to play

-- Rich schools tend to have more AP/Honor courses which inflate weighted GPAs

I went to one of the best public schools in America and it was not uncommon for someone to take 100% AP/Honors and get a 4.5+ GPA.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#13
> People in power today would much rather do something that seems to promote “equity” than make an evidence-based choice that could lead to accusations of racism.

"Wokeness" and CRT are steps back in logical and rational discussion. Sometimes the truth hurts, and instead of plugging our ears, shouting "LALALALALA", and denigrating the purveyors of said truth, we should accept the truth for what it is and look to the underlying causes.

The modern western allopathic medicine treat-the-symptoms-with-drugs school of thought pervades more than just healthcare.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#14
post #5
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is crumbling, socially. Have you seen the homelessness epidemic from San Fransisco and everywhere south? I work in a lucrative upper engineering management role and still cannot afford to buy a house... That's not really an indicator of a healthy state.

Then ask for a raise. Two people making $140k should easily be able to save up $400k in 5-8 years for a mortgage down payment. And single people don't need an entire house.

Should just move to somewhere in Montana with fiber. Buy a house with a forest attached to it and only one person need to work making $100K to live the same life.

The downside being lack of good sushi restaurants anywhere near, but ones got to make choices.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#15
I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities.

As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in “liberal” California.

If anybody from Texas has a different perspective on UT admission policy (I am sure it has its pathological edge cases) then I would be curious to hear.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#16
post #7

> Here are some more of the fiercely held arguments for dumping the tests: Test scores don’t reflect the character-forging aspects of life as a poor teenager; the tests force students from underfunded schools to compete against “affluent whites” who can afford expensive test prep; While the article does offer some rebuttal to that claim, I'd like to give a stronger one*: California is 31% white, University of Califor…

Considering that international students are overwhelmingly nonwhite, I don't think those numbers really hold up.

https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/fall-enrol...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#17
The author doesn't spend much time arguing why the tests should be kept. This is one defense and it feels pretty weak to me:

> standardized test scores say more about which applicants are likely to earn a degree and to do it in less than eight years; they also correlate strongly with students’ GPA at the university

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#18
post #7

> Here are some more of the fiercely held arguments for dumping the tests: Test scores don’t reflect the character-forging aspects of life as a poor teenager; the tests force students from underfunded schools to compete against “affluent whites” who can afford expensive test prep; While the article does offer some rebuttal to that claim, I'd like to give a stronger one*: California is 31% white, University of Califor…

I'm not following how that's a stronger rebuttal than the one in the article:

> But white students are also underrepresented, if only ever so slightly, at the UC: They make up 21 percent of the undergraduate population and 22 percent of K–12 schoolchildren.

If we're talking about college admissions, I think the percentage of white K-12 students is more important than the percentage of white people of any age. Obviously, some people start attending college later in life, but that number isn't high enough to make the demographics of the general population more important than the demographics of K-12 students.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#19
post #6

There is no real evidence for the idea that a difference in scores predicts a difference in performance, once you are above some threshold. They should keep the test, but use a threshold (per major and school) with a lottery for everyone above the threshold. And admit a small number below at random to keep evaluating what the threshold should be.

I don't understand why lottery are used so much in official context. Instead of the best, you select randomly and hoping RNGesus is on your side. I agree about the threshold, but how about using other criterias instead of RNG.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#20
Having spent a lot of time doing MS admissions at a top-tier CS program, I never really cared that much about specific scores unless they were absolutely terrible. Tests don’t tell you much about an applicant, essays are more helpful to know if somebody can be successful. We did away with tests and I didn’t miss them.
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