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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#591

Post by flowerlad »

lalaithion wrote: post #583
flowerlad wrote: post #569

The screen resolution, sadly, is only 2256x1504. This is not retina. I don't get how new laptops can be sold today with non-retina screens. The most common resolution these days is 1920x1080. My current laptop is Samsung ATIV Book 9, which is more than 5 years old. The 13" screen is 3200x1800. The best screen ever made. Possibly the best laptop ever made. The industrial design, the backlit keyboard, touchpad, everyth…

The 13 inch macbook pro is only 2560x1600. The PPI of this device is 200, according to my calculations, so it's not totally unacceptable.

I saw a Surface laptop at Costco last weekend, which is also 2256 x 1504, and I could see individual pixels. My current 5-year-old Samsung has spoiled me, I can't use a laptop where individual pixels are discernible. If this tech was available 5 years ago (and at a low price) why has the industry gone backwards?

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#592

Post by nrp »

kaszanka wrote: post #296
plater wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the very thinnest of laptops it's probably difficult without soldering the chips on board, but many users would prefer a slightly thicker laptop where you can replace the RAM, SSD etc. I have never had a laptop where the thickness has been an issue and I have done a fair share of traveling while working in sales. It's like a thoughtless race to make the thinnest laptop as if that is something that is useful. I bi…

I bet these "small vibrations" are due to some kind of coupling between the mains and the case. Dunno, not an electrical engineer. See if it still happens on battery power.

That is likely correct. Lenovo has an article about it here: https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht505170-informat...

We actually use a 3-prong AC cable to prevent this from occurring.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#593

Post by thaeli »

victor9000 wrote: post #254

This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…

How long do you plan to keep your laptop? For my "carry with me" laptop, I just plan to replace it every four years and buy four years of accidental damage coverage. I break the ports or the screen, Dell comes out the next day and replaces it. For the machine I use to do my job, that's a great thing to have.

I can see the advantage of fully serviceable if you're on more of a 7-to-10 year cycle, but then you have parts availability. I trust that Dell will still have service parts four years from now. I don't really have any reason to trust that this company will still exist four years from now, let alone still make a full line of upgrades.

(Ironically, I've found that an old, out-of-warranty Dell is actually affordable to do major component repair on - because there are cheap screens, keyboards, even motherboards readily available. That sweet spot where a bunch of business machines are coming off-lease is when you can get a new screen for $35.)

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#594

Post by nrp »

ribit wrote: post #417
nspattak wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please point us to some technical report or something where they document the energy saving of moving from dimm slots to soldered ram/ssd ?

By the way, check out reviews of the Framework Laptop for a first-hand illustration of this effect. They seem to be getting 40-50% lower battery runtimes than laptops with comparable specs. That's example the problem — of you design for modularity, you have to leave some optimizations on the table.

The battery impact for us at this point is likely more a factor of additional firmware and driver tuning that we need to do. We've tested to 10-11 hours in MobileMark 2018, but have actually seen video playback runtime (which should be a lighter load) drop below that due to some audio driver issues that we're working through.

There is certainly some impact to using DDR4 instead of LPDDR4, but we believe it is still the better choice for most consumers by allowing for greater product longevity at lower cost.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#595

Post by eric__cartman »

Aachen wrote: post #575
arendtio wrote: post #565

I really like the replaceable USB-C ports. From my smartphone I know, these things wear-off when being used multiple times per day and being able to simply replace them is much more useful than it might look like at first sight.

I hear this a lot but only from people with USB-C. Sure, on occasion you'd also hear someone who broke their mobile micro-USB or even USB-A laptop ports, but usually that was from bending the connector accidentally if I remember correctly. As someone with zero problems finding the correct orientation (it's both tactile and visual) who is in the market for a new phone, makes me wonder if I should look for one with mic…

Personally I've had more micro-USB connectors and cables fail than USB-C. Maybe it's just luck, but USB-C has been extremely reliable in my experience.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#596

Post by nrp »

twoslide wrote: post #300
octos4murai wrote: post #252

Somehow this is the first I’m hearing of this, and yet I have never hit buy so quick. Even if, heaven forbid, this company is no longer around in five years when I need new parts, just the ability to upgrade RAM, SSD, etc is so valuable.

If enough people buy, then the supply of parts could be independent of the company itself, as third-party manufacturers would probably see an opportunity.

Absolutely. We see the health of the ecosystem as a positive end state for us, regardless of whether we're selling the most modules or third parties are. We're standing up a marketplace to help foster that.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#597

Post by InitialLastName »

kaibee wrote: post #576
InitialLastName wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can fit FAR more signals on the bottom of a chip and in a multi-layer PCB than you can on any socket you might think of. There is a practical limit to how small the pitch of the pins on a socket can be if it's going to be field-replaceable; at high pin counts, the length of the socket itself becomes a driving factor. As an example, even moving away from edge-connectors (which are just a non-starter for 800+ pins)…

So design it like a CPU socket? Laptops usually don't have socketed CPUs because they also need to mount a heatsink, but RAM doesn't have that issue.

So an FM2 socket (to pick one of the more reliable ones), which has ~900 pins has a 4.5in^2 area and adds ~.25" in thickness, while reducing the maximum speed you can get through the chip at the very low voltages necessary to run LPDDR, which is what I meant by compromising speed and power.

Not to mention that socketting parts reduces your production yield over SMT, increases your assembly cost, and cuts reliability (it's fine on a desktop because you almost never move your desktop, and there's usually a big thermal assembly bolted on top).

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#598

Post by input_sh »

vzaliva wrote: post #151
nrp wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pre-built versions ship with Windows 10. The Framework Laptop DIY Edition ships without an OS installed.

Does this implies I will need to pay Microsoft tax even if I am planning to run Linux?

Selecting Windows adds +$139/+$199 to the price (for Home/Pro versions), so no.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#599

Post by nrp »

arendtio wrote: post #566
rogers18445 wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many monitors can you plug into the laptop given the appropriate number of modules? Unlikely to be 4, but is it at least 2 or hopefully 3?

It probably depends on resolution and refresh rate, so you might want to add some details.

You can run 4 4k 60hz monitors simultaneously if you turn off the internal display, or three if you keep the internal display on. The maximum external display resolution is 8k 60hz, but you can't run multiple of those.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#600

Post by nrp »

akavel wrote: post #276
nrp wrote: post #4

Framework Founder here! I am happy to answer any questions on the product.

Is there a chance you might produce a fanless configuration? Since I first bought a fanless machine, I'm a total sucker for them and just stopped considering fanless computers for home use anymore (100% confirmed by my later buying choices). I'm happy to notice that the fan seems to be on the mainboard in your DIY Build video, so at a first glance it looks not impossible; but I also understand there's more to that, i…

You can technically unplug the fan, but with a U-series CPU, it will just be throttling most of the time. A lower-power/lower-performance mainboard without a fan is something we could technically do in the future if there is customer demand for it.
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