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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

241–250 of 292 posts

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Delta variant is a humanitarian crisis in less vaccinated India and a moderate public health concern in countries with higher rates of vaccination.

From this page: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/india India seems to be doing better than the UK on basically every metric (switch to "Map" view for comparison).

Do deaths per million over the last 3 months instead of the last 7 days.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not an absurd claim. The statistics are available to everybody. Israel implemented vaccinations efficiently and very quickly their infection rates dropped close to zero. I live in Poland and same thing happened here. Now the infection rates grow again because the current vaccination rate and vaccine themselves are not enough to protect.

Infection rate is going up in Israel now.

It is going up because new strain reached, for which the current vaccine and level is not enough protection.

I wrote that in the post you responded to, it seems you kinda forgot to read the last sentence.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the US methodology of deciding whether you have COVID is much more strict if you've been vaccinated - this just fudges the numbers to make it look like vaccines work much better than they really do.

Fair, but infections is only a proxy measurement for the actual outcome we are trying to avoid: hospitalizations and death. The fact remains that hospitalizations and deaths are basically only occurring among the unvaccinated.

How are you measuring that? If it's using the CDC measure of whether you have COVID, then many of the hospitalised and dead who "didn't have COVID" were merely vaccinated and therefore didn't count.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheap SPO2 devices are calibrated on fair skin. If you have a darker complexion there is a known measurement error. If you are at 91% and feeling fine you are probably fine. Your body has a better SPO2 sensor than anything man-made.

Damn, I am brown and I guess I have to take that as a 3 - 5% error?

That is correct. See here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18048893/

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#245
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't find where it talks about vaccinated patients in the study you linked. It's not surprising that covid19 can cause brain damage (and heart damage, and death) to unvaccinated people.

That was listed under "The million dollar questions include" I'm now realizing formatting / phrasing was unclear. 1. >10% of mild / asymptomatic cases have brain damage. 2. The million dollar question is whether this includes vaccinated cases. Vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths by far more than they do mild and asymptomatic cases.

Ah, now I see what you mean. That is worrying. I hope that the rate of mild cases in vaccinated people is lower than the article would lead one to believe. I also hope the protection given is enough to avoid that kind of brain damage.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it curious that the rate of reinfection from that study coincides exactly with the false positive rate of the test

Some of the reinfected people died. You don't die from false positive result on two tests. It's not stated in the article buy you can safely assume that some of the reinfected had symptoms other than death as well.

They presumably didn’t die from their first detected infection which may be a false positive. And I guess by “some” you mean a small subset. Other sources are saying around 30 confirmed reinfections worldwide. Which is correct?

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re 2. Which programs? Not even polio vaccinations worked to eradicate the virus completely, and these came the closest. Much less BCG or variola (pox). Viruses like flu and coronaviruses, nigh impossible to eradicate. 1 and 3, sure. And mRNA vaccine is not particularly more dangerous than any other type. The cost-benefit is strongly on the side of vaccination there.

Why do you think smallpox wasn't eliminated by vaccines? mRNA vaccine is not particularly more dangerous than any other type I don't understand how that is consistent with the data from the various vaccine surveillance systems which show clearly that it's drastically more dangerous. It's also inconsistent with anecdotes that I've been hearing from people around me, of whom a disturbingly large number say that the vac…

Of course the vaccine made them feel sick, that's how immune responses tend to, much of the time, work. I felt like shit for about 12 hours, with fever and muscle soreness all over my body. Then it abated, as expected, and I went about my life knowing in two weeks I'd be at peak protection and could start participating in society again with a flipped risk profile.

I read a lot of your other comments so far and I had a suspicion, but this lone comment of yours confirmed it for me. You have some basic internal fear of the vaccine so you've done a bunch of rationalizing to make it seem worse and confirm your own bias.

I've looked at the VAERS data this morning for the US and you have a much higher chance of getting hit by a car and dying, or as is the very prescient case, getting COVID and having more adverse affects from that than an adverse vaccination, but I'm not going to convince you of anything because of that basic fear you have.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#249
post #231
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather play Russian roulette with one live round somewhere in 200,000 chambers, or one round in 100 chambers? You don’t get to opt out and attempting to do so gets you the 100 chambers. Neither you nor your family get to sue anyone in either case. If you opt for 100 either directly or by failing to make a choice fast enough, anyone around you who hasn’t faced the 200,000 yet — even if they wanted to — faces…

You can't compare getting vaccinated with getting bad COVID in this way. Getting vaccine is like a Russian roulette, because you do not know whether you are in the group of poor people who get maimed or killed by it. But not getting a vaccine is not like going to meet all people in town and hoping for the best. There are alternative strategies that reduce your risk of getting COVID and risk of severe health results f…

> But not getting a vaccine is not like going to meet all people in town and hoping for the best.

Absent vaccines the disease only goes away when too many people have caught the illness; that means you can only avoid catching it with your approach (regardless of what it is!) if you are an unusual and exceptional case.

> There are alternative strategies that reduce your risk of getting COVID and risk of severe health results from COVID immensely

The best way to reduce the of risk of severe health results from COVID is literally take one of the twenty different vaccines with a variety of different operating principles behind them.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denial is quite a river these days. Where else are you going to get a brain imaging study with before and after data on thousands of people? If that's not persuasive and concerning to you I don't think anything will be.

Why should a "study" in the abstract automatically be persuasive and concerning? Scientists get paid to publish studies, so the literature is full of nonsensical studies that show correlations between anything and everything. User timr just explained to you why this specific study cannot be used to conclude anything, but you're saying he's the one in denial?

A study in isolation should not be persuasive. There's a pipeline from idea to hypothesis the theory to fact, which includes many studies with many methodologies.

On the other hand, a handful of studies, one correlational with large n, a few causal, a good theoretical basis, etc. do move us up that pipeline quite a bit.

Mild and asymptomatic cases of COVID19 due seem to cause brain damage leading to brain fog.

- Reports of brain fog in isolation? Psychosomatic.

- Correlational studies? Correlation is not causation.

- Case studies? Anecdotal.

- Extrapolation from olfactory symptoms? Theoretical.

And so on.

Put together, though, it's a pretty strong case. It's not airtight, but it's well into the well-supported theory range.

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