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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#431

Post by rvanlaar »

nrp wrote: post #48
Dracophoenix wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) What are the chances of a 15.6 inch version with a numpad or should I not hold my breath? 2) Are dGPUs expected in the this or an upcoming version? 3) Color options other than white? 4a) Does the keyboard use low-profile Cherry switches or something else? (Edited) 4b) Are the keys backlit? (Edited) 5) ETA on TB4 ports? 6) Is there a 99Wh battery for the laptop?

1) We can't announce anything yet, but our current 13.5" Framework Laptop will certainly not be the last product we ever build! 2) See question 1. 3) We've designed the bezel to be color customizable, and there are some photos of orange and white ones on our website. We'll be adding more colors as we go. For the chassis itself, it is anodized aluminum. We don't currently have plans for additional aluminum colors thou…

I'm wondering about 5, thunderbolt.

I now use a lenovo X1 thinkpad and use an external GPU to drive 2 4K monitors. The internal Intel UHD 620 just can't handle.

Is the intel Xe graphics enough to handle this? If so, thunderbolt would be a nice to have, but not a requirement.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#432

Post by ddalex »

littlestymaar wrote: post #366
ddalex wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 100WH battery a hand grenade typically releases 250kJ, or about 70Wh you're asking for the equivalent of 1.5 grenades in your lap :)

A chocolate tablet typically stores 4000kJ of energy. Yes that's 15 hand grenades, what are we waiting for: ban chocolate tablets now! And don't get me started on flour, not only it stores a ton of energy (50 grenades per kg) but it's also highly explosive! [1] [1]: (only with the right air to flour ratio of course, but accident happen every once in a while: https://www.grupa-wolff.com/a-tragic-flour-explosion/ )

The chocolate bar doesn't start a violent fire if pierced. If it would we could power our laptops with chocolate :)

The flour conditions of exploding are far more difficult to achieve than a LiIon battery conditions - orders of magnitude difference.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#433

Post by loufe »

Const-me wrote: post #365
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be misinformed. Everyone loves to hate Intel (and rightfully so) but Tiger Lake has better IPC and implicitly better single threaded performance than Ryzen. In real world tasks (web browsing, opening an IDE) it often comes on top of AMD. It only loses to AMD in multi threaded benchmarks because of the lower core count (everyone loves to flex Cinebench scores online, but I buy my laptop to use, not run ben…

> In real world tasks (web browsing, opening an IDE) My real-world task is not opening an IDE, it’s using that IDE. Modern C++ compilers are using all available CPU cores just fine. > It only loses to AMD in multi threaded benchmarks These are the only workloads I care about. Not just compilation, many other things as well. You only need single-threaded performance for 2 things, for the stuff that’s inherently serial…

> You only need single-threaded performance for 2 things, for the stuff that’s inherently serial like gzip, or to run programs made more than 5-10 years ago.

You must not be grand strategy game players. Any titles from Paradox and some other popular games are all limited by single core IPC. They are a great example of the limits of multi-threading, some processes and problems cannot be adapted to take advantage of it. If I get such a laptop I'd spend 50% of the time I use it playing such games.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#434

Post by ddalex »

chrismorgan wrote: post #326
ddalex wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 100WH battery a hand grenade typically releases 250kJ, or about 70Wh you're asking for the equivalent of 1.5 grenades in your lap :)

Airlines tend to cap lithium-ion batteries at 100Wh, so it’s quite common for laptops and power banks to go to or just shy of that. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/11/apple-introduces-16-i... speaks of a 100Wh battery. My latest laptop has about a 90Wh battery. Hopefully your laptop and hand grenade have radically different power discharge profiles.

> Hopefully your laptop and hand grenade have radically different power discharge profiles

Li battery fires are not unheard of, unfortunately, so the profiles may start to resemble sometimes.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#436

Post by ribit »

emodendroket wrote: post #363
audunw wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You better get used to it. RAM is going to move closer and closer to the CPU for speed and power reduction. And every major laptop manufacturer will move that way to compete. Especially now that the M1 Mac has shown what’s possible when every part of the system is optimized for low power. What we can hope for is that SSD acts more like RAM. Maybe it could have a decent sized RAM chip that the OS can dedicate as cache…

Yeah, I’m really curious where they go from here because it seems like the lesson is that modularity has a major performance penalty.

Once you get to a certain stage, yes, modularity becomes very expensive. I do believe that things like SSDs or WiFi cards should be modular, because there is no reason for them not to, but RAM? We are moving towards high-bandwidth on-package RAM, why would I want to sacrifice 100Gbps of performance and 5+ hours of battery life — not to mention also paying more — just to have an option of upgrading the RAM some time down the line?

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#437

Post by rvanlaar »

MikusR wrote: post #412
Const-me wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In real world tasks (web browsing, opening an IDE) My real-world task is not opening an IDE, it’s using that IDE. Modern C++ compilers are using all available CPU cores just fine. > It only loses to AMD in multi threaded benchmarks These are the only workloads I care about. Not just compilation, many other things as well. You only need single-threaded performance for 2 things, for the stuff that’s inherently serial…

Also web is still single threaded.

What do you mean by that?

Firefox and Chrome both have gpu hardware acceleration, and different threads/processes for UI and webpages.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#438

Post by Dracophoenix »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #185
nightski wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly just start with colors and/or black like say the Razer Blade, iPhone, or iMac. I have a G14 with anime matrix led display and it's pretty slick looking (so cool how it lights up) [1]. I understand it's not as minimalist as a macbook but I've been blown away by the amount of comments I get on it's looks. It completely goes against Apple's design DNA but maybe it's just the super minimalist approach itself I a…

That's fair. I mostly like a minimalist approach, but I'd like them to find space for just a little more whimsy than they've had in the last decade -- and I'd definitely like to see the laptops in more colors than "silver gray" and "kinda darker silver gray".

If the M1 iMac is an indication of things to come, you might get your wish.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#440

Post by thefr0g »

Karsteski wrote: post #425
thefr0g wrote: post #322

Are there other companies doing similiar projects? This is a good step in the right direction but there are some major drawbacks for me: - 3:2 screen makes the laptop bigger and adds space thats pretty much useless except for video editing I guess - No option without camera, mic and fingerprint reader - Intel CPU - Thin instead of robust - American company

I had a surface pro throughout university and I found 3:2 to be perfect for productivity. Also it's nice to be able to see more code if you're into that. Why don't you like that they are American?

> Also it's nice to be able to see more code if you're into that.

I guess that depends on font scaling but if there is code that long there is usually something wrong with it :D

I like to have views side by side but the 3:2 doesn't really help with that either (at least for code on 13")

> Why don't you like that they are American?

That usually complicates payment and shipping (at least with smaller companies) plus I don't really like (indirectly) supporting a government that thinks human rights are for citizens only.

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