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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#191

Post by pigeonhole123 »

scotty79 wrote: post #177
murphyslab wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens The number of ways in which we undertaking a natural experiment in viral evolution has been top-of-mind for me as well. But the greater issue in my view is not that the vaccines are imperfect. All vaccines are somewhat imperfect. On its own, I the mRNA vaccines were probably entirely adequate. The problem is that…

Becoming infected also doesn't completely protect you from becoming infected again, 1% of patients who had severe covid get infected again in just 3.5 months. [0] So even if vaccines don't prevent the transmission or protect from infection worse than being severely infected then you might treat them just as a way of making you survive your first infection so that first infection can protect you better from further in…

I find it curious that the rate of reinfection from that study coincides exactly with the false positive rate of the test

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#192

Post by Gravityloss »

criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

The MRNA vaccine was developed fast, it's the testing that took a long time. There should be sampling and a new variant of the vaccine created fast to prevent this variant of the virus from spreading.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#193

Post by vampirical »

AstralStorm wrote: post #166
native_samples wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mRNA vaccines are not "adequate": they are being treated by governments as if they aren't working whilst also being significantly more dangerous than every other vaccine programme out there by a long way, even according to the CDC's own rather unreliable VAERS data. Look at the graph here and repeat that these vaccines are adequate: https://swprs.org/us-vaccine-deaths-increasing-rapidly/ "the human population, as…

Re 2. Which programs? Not even polio vaccinations worked to eradicate the virus completely, and these came the closest. Much less BCG or variola (pox). Viruses like flu and coronaviruses, nigh impossible to eradicate. 1 and 3, sure. And mRNA vaccine is not particularly more dangerous than any other type. The cost-benefit is strongly on the side of vaccination there.

native_samples You've been misinformed. We have pre launch studies with 40k+ participants showing no meaningful risk. And post launch when there were exceedingly rare ("This adverse event is rare, occurring at a rate of about 7 per 1 million vaccinated women between 18 and 49 years old. For women 50 years and older and men of all ages, this adverse event is even more rare.") and not unexpected clotting issues vaccine administration was paused so the issue could be analyzed more thoroughly and quantified specifying to defeat this kind of FUD. "As to safety The Pfizer trial reported serious adverse reactions in 0.6% of vaccine recipients and 0.5% of placebo recipients." https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-phase-... https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/sa... https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#194

Post by gibba999 »

eloff wrote: post #25
gibba999 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the major one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g. https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid…

I couldn't find where it talks about vaccinated patients in the study you linked. It's not surprising that covid19 can cause brain damage (and heart damage, and death) to unvaccinated people.

That was listed under "The million dollar questions include"

I'm now realizing formatting / phrasing was unclear.

1. >10% of mild / asymptomatic cases have brain damage.

2. The million dollar question is whether this includes vaccinated cases. Vaccines reduce hospitalizations and deaths by far more than they do mild and asymptomatic cases.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#195

Post by BoxOfRain »

native_samples wrote: post #151
nicoburns wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To prevent yourself and others from getting (the severe form of) the virus. I can assure you that most people would still have gotten vaccinated. Personally what I would like is roughly what we've had in the UK for the previous few months. The ability to do mostly normal life, but with restrictions on large events and mandated precautions such as masks. Along with vaccinations that would probably have been a sustaina…

"what I would like is roughly ... the ability to do mostly normal life, but with restrictions on large events and mandated precautions such as masks. Along with vaccinations that would probably have been a sustainable state." To be clear, are you stating you would like all large events to be permanently banned forever.

A lot of people (mostly older people in my experience) seem to think that people who work in the events industry should just curl up in an alleyway and die at this point. According to the more authoritarian-inclined, COVID means we can never ever have festivals, clubs, or anything like that again in the name of biosecurity. Personally I'd rather chew on razor wire than inhabit the mind-numbingly beige world of dull conventionality these people so clearly have never left in their lives.

I really don't like this new orthodoxy of "safetyism" which to me is a slavish adherence to the precautionary principle, a general approach of authoritarianism, and excessive influence of technocratic institutions which aren't subject to the usual political processes. This kind of ideology existed long before COVID but the pandemic has massively increased its influence. If people like authoritarianism and technocracy I'd rather they argued for them openly and in good faith than trying to use the pandemic as a smokescreen. There's nothing wrong with arguing for these things but I cannot stand people who dress their political opinions in lab coats and try to pass them off as science. There's no one true approach here, and pretending there is has caused a lot of avoidable strife in my opinion.

Politics is so much more than "follow the science", I think we'll regret in the future that we only gave seats at the table to epidemiologists and bureaucrats when it came to this pandemic rather than including a far wider range of scientific disciplines, experts in philosophy (especially ethics), and broader industry representation. The events industry has been done dirty in my opinion for example.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#196

Post by ignoramous »

yyyk wrote: post #139
Izkata wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One counterpoint that I’ve come across during my own review of the literature, is the idea that imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens. This is what happened with "Marek's disease", a virus-caused disease in chickens. The vaccine was "leaky" and ended up selecting for a more deadly form, such that now all chickens worldwide have to be vaccinated for i…

1) All current variations of concern come from mostly unvaccinated countries. Apparently there's a serious issue with immunocompromised individuals and the vaccines may help prevent that: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-ma... 2) We can see with SARS and MERS that a more deadly form may actually reduce overall mortality, since the virus can't spread as effectively. However, we haven't had thi…

> We can see with SARS and MERS that a more deadly form may actually reduce overall mortality, since the virus can't spread as effectively. However, we haven't had this effect so far.

As GP pointed out, when the unvaccinated are at risk and vaccinated ones are carriers, the dynamics don't remain the same as in the case of Ebola / Nipah / MERS / J. Encephalitis, because the infection retains its virulence while evolutionary pressure selects for a fatal variant, a deadly combination.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#198

Post by samus »

native_samples wrote: post #161
evgen wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely untrue. The reservoir of selfish unvaccinated individuals is what is providing a place for Covid to hide and mutate. Vax critics were silenced and ridiculed because they are dangerous deceivers who need to be called out and held to account for the consequences of their lies.

That's not something that's ever been a problem with vaccines before. Even if you have unshakeable faith in this evidence-free perversion of biological theory, nobody was claiming the vaccines will fail without 100% adoption last year when they launched. Their reception would have been rather different if that had been claimed, wouldn't it? So you can either believe this is true, in which case governments and pharma…

It's a general issue with every vaccine against an illness that has a reservoir. The reservoir can be other species (birds and various other animals in case of influenza) or it can be human populations that for various reasons have not eliminated the spread of the illness yet (measles in countries that refuse or make it difficult to vaccinate, polio if not completely eradicated yet). In this reservoir the agent has opportunity to mutate, and it can never be excluded that at some point it makes inroads into populations again where it was eradicated before.

Global eradication of diseases has been achieved with smallpox and bovine rinderpest precisely because they had no natural reservoir and all vulnerable populations could be vaccinated. With Coronaviruses the situation is not so simple, but it should at least be possible to eradicate the currently relevant variant.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#199

Post by effie »

deathcakes wrote: post #173
thirsty-dove wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not selfish to decline a medical procedure one thinks is unlikely to benefit oneself. Furthermore, it's malpractice for a doctor to advise a patient to undergo a medical procedure that is not more likely than not to benefit that specific patient . Your attitude is what's dangerous.

Sorry but no it is selfish - that is the definition of selfish. 'It won't benefit me; it will benefit the whole of society but I don't give a shit about them so I'm not going to' is the most selfish viewpoint you can have. I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.

This argument was proposed by Nazi "doctors", they were doing experiments on patients to "benefit the nation". Of course, this argument didn't work and they got their sentences.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#200

Post by scotty79 »

_user112 wrote: post #104

You're not meant to go backwards in the alphabet. Going upwards gives the illusion of escalation, creating more panic.

Gamma isn't later variant than Delta. It's one of the first four concerning ones we know about for some time already.
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