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It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

simonwillison.net

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Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#201

Post by sgtnoodle »

carnitine wrote: post #176
kebman wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that the whiteboard coding interviews are flawed, or that guys like us, who has made a ton of more or less great projects are flawed? Why would a company rather have a guy that can solve binary search in five seconds, than one that has showed continuous progress with several finished projects over the years? Do they think accomplished guys somehow are a liability? Or is it that they want a blank sheet…

Binary search? I would never hire anyone who couldn’t implement it from scratch. There’s no complex idea or trick to remember, it’s the most basic algorithmic around.

I agree that it's not particularly challenging. As a counterpoint though, a linear search is more basic. It's also often faster than a binary search for small datasets, and it's easier to prove correct purely by inspection.

Anecdotally, a coworker we hired a couple years ago (and has been doing an awesome job) dusted off her old coding challenge from when she applied, and ran it through a new test suite we've been working on. The suite failed, and it turns out her binary search was buggy...

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#202

Post by no_time »

I always wanted to have a public gh and website that has my name on it... My only problem is that most of my non work related projects are either

a). Reverese engineering projects that may or may not be legal. I don't care at all but I wouldn't put it next to my name. Most of my projects fall under this category

b). So personal that it's very unlikely that anyone would find it useful.

c). Can only be used or even demonstrated with data that falls under strict NDA.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#203

Post by sgtnoodle »

adamors wrote: post #197
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if I forgot how to write binary search The binary search algorithm isn't something you can "forget". For a literate programmer it's like forgetting how to write the letter 'A' or forgetting which pedal is the gas and which is the brakes.

This comment is nonsense. Nobody is writing binary searches in their day-to-day jobs, and if they do it's once in a blue moon, not every day. You're using pedals every time you drive.

Yeah, I need to implement a binary search maybe once a year. I had a legit use of a priority queue a couple years ago and I'm still excited about it!

I've still never had a professional use for a Trei structure. I tried really hard to make a case for it on a project at Google, but it just didn't make sense vs. slapping down std::map and then drinking a beer.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#204

Post by puppet-master »

trhoad wrote: post #187

You'll miss out on a whole range of engineers that have a life outside of work (which also brings some balance and maturity to the job), and therefore have no time (or inclination) to groom a public presence on the internet. Raising a family, going cycling, volunteering, reading books - these are all more valuable insights into a candidate for me, more so than your retweets.

Folk post this on every thread as if denying the effect somehow makes it go away. As both a candidate and hiring manager, the effect is very real and it is folly to ignore it. As a candidate, I landed a FANG job early in my career almost exclusively on the basis of my (poor quality) tech blog attracting the attention of a recruiter. As a hiring manager, I've dumped all resumes for a position and practically begged an extremely young (barely legal) candidate to interview and work for me on any terms just based on the strength of the passion found in their resume and web site.

Simon's article is expressly about how little work is required to exploit this effect. You can still have a life outside of work while presenting the appearance of being passionate about what you do during work, it's really not hard.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#205

Post by benhurmarcel »

the_af wrote: post #73
maxk42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really underestimate the amount of stress that can be felt when you're alone facing 6 people for a job that you want. Practice. Go on interviews even when you don't need a job. Get that practice in and get comfortable with it. I went on 18 - 30 interviews a year for many years when I was a contractor and got very good at interviewing over time. I still get a bit tense when the job is particularly appealing, but w…

> "Practice. Go on interviews even when you don't need a job." I'm ambivalent about this kind of advice. On the surface it seems right, and I've never been more comfortable in interviews than when I was thinking "I don't need this job", at the same time interviews are incredibly stressful time wasters. For a lot of people, interviewing is one of the most stressful situations they are going to be in, barring life or d…

Isn't that the point? Stressful experiences become less stressful as you practice and get used to them.

I used to be stressed out speaking in front of 20 colleagues or landing a small plane. Not anymore.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#206

Post by ClumsyPilot »

epicureanideal wrote: post #158
Hermel wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you should have applied with smaller companies that don’t have bureaucratic hiring processes yet?

Most small companies copy the bureaucratic hiring processes of the larger ones at this point.

Usually they copy them wrong and dont know why its not working

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#207

Post by mewpmewp2 »

lmilcin wrote: post #180
teknofobi wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always remind people to learn something first before you try to teach other people. Teaching is one the greatest ways to learn and develop your relation and vocabulary for what you are currently learning. It’s one of the greatest tricks a good college class will pull, having students continually drag each other a step further as they learn something new and then have to explain it to their peers. Most blogging is…

> Teaching is one the greatest ways to learn and develop your relation and vocabulary for what you are currently learning Oh sure it is. I studied theoretical math and I found teaching other students math was great way to get it organized in my head. But we also had professor and I wasn't teaching anybody original ideas, just the material that was already written and defined. Now I have decades of development experie…

Rather than making conclusions based on their level, see the arguments they have in their article and if it's doubtful they didn't come up with those thoughts on their own, but simply copy pasted, then ask them to elaborate on some things and it will be clear.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#208

Post by ImprobableTruth »

golergka wrote: post #173
cableshaft wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I've had a portfolio of full video games I've coded and released on my own, as the sole programmer, that could be played on the web, had my name credited on the title screen, and you could even see the code on some of them, and I proudly included the link on my resume. Never brought up during the interview process, I was still expected to take the coding tests, and if I did a little poorly on one question I almo…

I've worked in gamedeve since 2007 and interviewed a lot of people. Small games portfolio doesn't matter, because small games, just like beginner tutorials from Unity, don't teach you skills necessary to work on a large-scale project with multiple developers. When you're working on small-scale projects, you can follow bad practices and don't hit their limitations. However, if I would be interviewing a game designer a…

Does this also apply to junior roles? I would expect a portfolio of small games or some tech demos is the best you could expect there.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#209

Post by mewpmewp2 »

sgtnoodle wrote: post #203
adamors wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is nonsense. Nobody is writing binary searches in their day-to-day jobs, and if they do it's once in a blue moon, not every day. You're using pedals every time you drive.

Yeah, I need to implement a binary search maybe once a year. I had a legit use of a priority queue a couple years ago and I'm still excited about it! I've still never had a professional use for a Trei structure. I tried really hard to make a case for it on a project at Google, but it just didn't make sense vs. slapping down std::map and then drinking a beer.

In which case would you actually implement a binary search instead of using an existing library method for that?

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#210

Post by k__ »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #64
k__ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It helped me to get offers from companies, so I didn't have to apply for anything anymore. Sure, when I applied, I had to do dumb tests. But when a C or VP level asked me it was usually not an issue to get a job.

This really depends. Are you talking about FANG+ type companies? Doesnt matter who you are you will probably have to whiteboard. Outside of FANG? I'm sure you can bypass many technicals with credentials.

I'm not talking about big companies. I'm not that famous.

But I think, if a person above VP level wants you at Facebook, an assesment center isn't an issue.

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