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It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

simonwillison.net

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Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#151

Post by [deleted] »

dheera wrote: post #26
tibbetts wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of information available on candidates to hiring managers is extremely limited. Evidence of outside creativity is a pretty good sign that someone is not a bozo.

Why is this such a hard problem to solve? When I was a founder it was incredibly hard to find people who are "available" and skilled because they feared listing themselves as available on LinkedIn. When I'm not a founder and skilled it's incredibly hard to get to hiring managers. Usually I get warm intros from people within companies I'm interested in, it works way better, and usually often results in jumping straigh…

[deleted]

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#152

Post by raverbashing »

booi wrote: post #137
AlwaysRock wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really depends. Are you talking about FANG+ type companies? Doesnt matter who you are you will probably have to whiteboard. Outside of FANG? I'm sure you can bypass many technicals with credentials.

Most FAANG companies do actual coding now instead of whiteboarding :(

Great to know, an editor is much easier than a whiteboard

I'd much prefer it rather than scribbling in a whiteboard with an eraser that doesn't work and trying to put together the solution

Whiteboard does work for higher level discussions, not for anything resembling code

Lest they ask you to whiteboard FizzBuzz, that makes me want to leave the interview immediately.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#153

Post by [deleted] »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #121
eru wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No worries. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27927159 for some more. > May be he meant to use "invert binary tree" as a representative example of questions that typically asked. Yes, that's a charitable and believable interpretation of his tweet. (Though I don't know where he got that 90% figure from. Probably made up, like 85.12% of statistics.)

It’s a charitable interpretation, but seems super reasonable. Around that time, I think “inverting a binary tree” was a bit of a meme/shorthand about software interviewing.

[deleted]

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#154

Post by kebman »

RandallBrown wrote: post #135
jameshush wrote: post #27

In my experience, for a pure engineering role, nobody seems to care. I had credits at large companies, posted talks online (interviewers rarely looked at them), but if I forgot how to write binary search in 10 minutes in an interview it didn’t matter. This actually made me realize being just an IC wasn’t actually my goal though. Once I started interviewing for management and sales, all of those things _really_ matter…

For a pure engineering role things like credits at large companies, online talks, side projects, etc. are all really great ways to get an interview. I can't really remember the last time I was turned down for an interview. You're totally right about the other part though. I've lost a lot of jobs I think I could have been great at because I'm really bad at whiteboard coding interviews.

Does this mean that the whiteboard coding interviews are flawed, or that guys like us, who has made a ton of more or less great projects are flawed? Why would a company rather have a guy that can solve binary search in five seconds, than one that has showed continuous progress with several finished projects over the years? Do they think accomplished guys somehow are a liability? Or is it that they want a blank sheet imp that they can mould wholly in their own image? Is real creativity and output really of no value to these guys?

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#155

Post by maxioatic »

ant6n wrote: post #143
colordrops wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the unhappy face? Is this considered a bad trend? I'm personally way better at online coding sessions than whiteboarding.

Jotting down an algorithm and talking about complexity is probably easier than implementing it?

A coding session usually implies something unrelated to algorithms. Whiteboarding is usually much more than "jotting down an algorithm".

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#156

Post by N00bN00b »

EvilEy3 wrote: post #105
N00bN00b wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I basically made the same remark. For a lot of positions they're just not looking for creative people, just chairs to fill. They want "good enough" and nothing more.

I don't see how having high enough standard means that they want "good enough".Do you want their hiring level to be even higher or what?

>Do you want their hiring level to be even higher or what?

I just described what I see. It's not about what I want or don't want. Personally I'm mostly indifferent, I'd say.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#157

Post by wreath »

Side projects show only one attribute that is a reason why id hire someone, which is their technical ability. Delivering on time with reasonable quality, working within given constraints, with people from other disciplines are other aspects that are as important as technical capabilities but blogging and side projects cannot convey, therefore side projects wont make you standout imo unless you built a business around it. Id much rather work with people who have another life outside tech than not.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#158

Post by epicureanideal »

Hermel wrote: post #147
cableshaft wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I've had a portfolio of full video games I've coded and released on my own, as the sole programmer, that could be played on the web, had my name credited on the title screen, and you could even see the code on some of them, and I proudly included the link on my resume. Never brought up during the interview process, I was still expected to take the coding tests, and if I did a little poorly on one question I almo…

Maybe you should have applied with smaller companies that don’t have bureaucratic hiring processes yet?

Most small companies copy the bureaucratic hiring processes of the larger ones at this point.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#159

Post by wreath »

TrackerFF wrote: post #141
barbarbar wrote: post #106

Is a doctor also going to publish achievements? A construction engineer should he/she publish calc of beam dimensions? A carpenter how should he/her show creations. If it was doors or windows installed in people's houses. Something is wrong here in this industry.

I think the crux of the matter is that for almost all other such professions (MD, Engineers, Lawyers, etc.), there is a more formal type of gatekeeping when it comes to recruiting. Education, licenses, and similar - often in combination. The world of software development is MUCH more open to people that necessarily don't have the correct formalities, because there's a common knowledge that there are tons of talented…

Id rather grind leetcode and system design problems and get credentials for it and dont have to again. Wait.. thats what my university degree was for..

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#160

Post by maxk42 »

solipsism wrote: post #67
maxk42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really underestimate the amount of stress that can be felt when you're alone facing 6 people for a job that you want. Practice. Go on interviews even when you don't need a job. Get that practice in and get comfortable with it. I went on 18 - 30 interviews a year for many years when I was a contractor and got very good at interviewing over time. I still get a bit tense when the job is particularly appealing, but w…

Ah, yes, purposefully waste people's time. Fuck them, right? I've seen this kind of attitude before, and it's usually justified with something about how the companies don't respect your time so why should you respect theirs. The thing is... the kind of people at these companies who don't care about your time are the kind of people who would do something like this.

I fail to understand how you equate "Go on interviews even when you don't need a job." with "waste people's time." The idea is to interview when you don't need a job so that you can easily negotiate for the best possible offer. If they won't beat your current compensation or benefits you can say "thanks but no thanks" and if they can you can say "I'd be delighted!" Nobody's time is wasted - the hiring company just has a higher bar to meet to entice you to join their team. If anyone's time is wasted it's yours when they can neither make a competitive offer nor help you to improve your skills in the interview.

If you've only ever interviewed when you were desperate to take the first job that comes along then you're almost certainly under-compensated. Anyone who's not taking a better job when they get the chance is leaving money on the table.

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