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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#71

Post by lamontcg »

kaczordon wrote: post #6
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

What’s more interesting is that 0/6 of the miners who had natural immunity were re-infected. That points to natural immunity preventing spread. The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit. Vaccine mandates or checking for vaccination status are pointless because of this.

> The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission...

No such fact exists.

"Vaccination with BNT162b2 reduces transmission of SARS-CoV-2 to household contacts in Israel"

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.13.21260393v...

> The overall vaccine effectiveness against transmission was 88.5%.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#72

Post by timr »

gibba999 wrote: post #16
inter_netuser wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

brain damage after vaccine, or "mild" disease in vaccinated people? can you point to that MRI imaging? curious to see.

This is the major one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g. https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid…

> This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases.

It shows no such thing. It's an analysis of MRIs where the authors infer loss of gray matter in specific regions of the brain. This is in no way "brain damage", and representing it this way is leaping to wild conclusions.

Lest you not believe me, here is a randomized controlled trial, showing that "excessive online video gaming" reduces orbitofrontal gray matter:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29057579/

(...so your Mom was right: gaming is turning your brain to mush!)

Here is a review that shows that similar losses in gray matter are associated with anxiety and sleep loss (two problems that I'm sure didn't affect anyone in 2020):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29244642/

Similarly: "Profound and reproducible patterns of reduced regional gray matter characterize major depressive disorder"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31341158/

Just for fun: here's a paper that shows that "tooth loss was a causal factor for volume reduction in brain areas related to memory, learning and cognition"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29475808/

(bonus points: can you spot the missing correlate?)

The fact is, you can find research literature associating "loss of gray matter" with pretty much anything. And if a reliable trend does exist across this literature, it seems to be that gray matter changes are often seen in...wait for it: depressed people and the aged.

But I'm sure that Covid has done nothing to depress people or affect the aged, so we can probably safely ignore that little detail.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#73

Post by hnzix »

standapart wrote: post #69
endisneigh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. Even if vaccinated people could get COVID (which they can) and could get sick (which they currently do, to some extent) - the question is ultimately whether or not vaccinated people die at the same rate. As long as Rate of Death for Vaccinated < Rate of Death for Unvaccinated + Rate of Death for taking Vaccine; you should be vaccinated, regardless of age.

I'm not sure how you came to this decision rule. There are plenty of things which strictly decrease my mortality rate, by some non-zero amount, which I do not do and are not recommended for me.

20-somethings are at a lower risk for mortality, that doesn't mean they won't suffer long COVID symptoms like arthritis and reduced lung function. And also infect more vulnerable age groups.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#74

Post by aparashk »

In a mine -- constricted space of very small volume with forced ventilation -- the conditions would be ideal for getting infected with a very high initial viral load. Under these conditions, it is not unreasonable that immunity of any kind (from infection or vaccination) would not be sufficient to prevent symptomatic COVID19 infections.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#75

Post by bronzeage »

endisneigh wrote: post #19
standapart wrote: post #18

The main takeaway here, mentioned above, is that this might throw shade on the "public good" idea of vaccination-- that you should still vaccinate those at minimal risk from Covid. If you're at high risk, you should definitely still get vaccinated. Maybe just stop telling twenty-somethings they should get vaccinated too.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. Even if vaccinated people could get COVID (which they can) and could get sick (which they currently do, to some extent) - the question is ultimately whether or not vaccinated people die at the same rate. As long as Rate of Death for Vaccinated < Rate of Death for Unvaccinated + Rate of Death for taking Vaccine; you should be vaccinated, regardless of age.

It's Rate of death for vaccinated * probability of catching covid As probability of catching covid-19 decreases, it makes less sense to vaccinate, and if the probability of catching covid-19 is 1%, the vaccine death rate needs to be 100 times smaller than the reduced covid-19 death rate. For young people I think the numbers are against the vaccine.

If it significantly stopped spread that would be different - but the new variants statistics make it pointless at 39% only efficacy.

At this point the numbers are just sadly against vaccines. I'm saying this as a disappointed vaccinated young person. I wouldn't have taken it with the currently known numbers.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#76

Post by fh973 »

pixl97 wrote: post #39
throwawayboise wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was in response to "I suppose those miners are strong healthy men" They were not. They were obese and hypertensive. That is unhealty no matter what vaccines you take.

Well, isn't something like over half of America obese?

No, just around 36%:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#77

Post by bpodgursky »

seventytwo wrote: post #48
flybrand wrote: post #27

“Attack rate was 0/6 among persons with a previous history of COVID-19 versus 63.2% among those with no previous history (Table).”

… and 99% of cases in the US are among the unvaccinated. What’s your point?

The point is that the people naturally infected were not reinfected.

That stat isn't incompatible. The 99% in the US could easily be the people neither vaccinated nor previously-infected. It says nothing about the risk of reinfection.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#78

Post by camillomiller »

dopylitty wrote: post #5
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

I got it, and it was annoying, sure, but I had influenza A in the past and boy, was that REALLY bad. I would be totally fine if we get to a point where we consider Covid to be like an endemic seasonal flu for the vaccinated, because I can’t see many ways out otherwise

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#79

Post by RalfWausE »

kadoban wrote: post #49
lugged wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some claim it can still be irradicated. But those people get banned on YouTube for saying bad words so you probably won't believe me.

Do they say how? Doesn't seem like it even makes sense anymore. I'm going to guess based on your youtube wording that their answer is not vaccines?

"Do they say how?"

I am relatively certain this is the reason they are banned from youtube... i have seen a (now removed) video from a crank on youtube who suggested saturation bombing of high incidence areas might be the solution...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#80

Post by blub »

camillomiller wrote: post #78
dopylitty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

I got it, and it was annoying, sure, but I had influenza A in the past and boy, was that REALLY bad. I would be totally fine if we get to a point where we consider Covid to be like an endemic seasonal flu for the vaccinated, because I can’t see many ways out otherwise

A virus with the flu's potential for damage and the SARS-2 level of infectivity even after a vaccine would be terrible for those getting sick, but even worse for healthcare.
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