Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 292 posts

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#11

Post by dopylitty »

version_five wrote: post #7
dopylitty wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

> Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%. Isn't the point that levels below severe are not generally fatal and don't require hospitalization. Nobody thinks it's good to get sick, but it generally ceases to be a threat to public health with vaccination.

That may be but it’s not a particularly useful definition on an individual level.

If I’m sick in bed for two weeks I can’t work or take care of my family so those mild symptoms very much would be a danger, not to mention the dangers from long COVID which hasn’t been ruled out in vaccinated folks and the dangers of exposing people who can’t be vaccinated.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#12

Post by inter_netuser »

gibba999 wrote: post #10
version_five wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%. Isn't the point that levels below severe are not generally fatal and don't require hospitalization. Nobody thinks it's good to get sick, but it generally ceases to be a threat to public health with vaccination.

The million dollar questions include: - Long COVID post-vaccine. >10% of people have brain damage visible on MRIs, including mild cases. - Future mutations. People have been overly optimistic for 15 months now, and believed bad things couldn't happen. They do. There's no reason to believe Delta or Gamma are the end, or anywhere close.

brain damage after vaccine, or "mild" disease in vaccinated people?

can you point to that MRI imaging? curious to see.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#13

Post by sterlind »

refurb wrote: post #4

Fully vaccinated individuals getting infected shouldn't be all that surprising. The phase 3 trials of Pfizer and Moderna saw a 95% reduction in severe symptoms. No routine testing for infection was done, only testing if someone showed symptoms. Singapore's gov't is tracking all of their infections and 80% of the population has had 1 shot, 50% fully vaccinated (Pfizer and Moderna). They've had 1096 cases in the last 2…

I feel like a 60% attack rate among fully vaccinated people in one outbreak is pretty chilling, though. Like I'm glad they didn't have severe illness but this news is disappointing.

Delta seems to heavily dominate in Singapore [0], and they don't seem to have Gamma at all. The outbreak in this article was Gamma.

This study doesn't jive well with the in-vitro tests of vaccinated serum against gamma and the numbers we're seeing broadly though, so I'm still hopeful this is a fluke occurrence.

0. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/singapore-finds-d...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#14

Post by kaczordon »

wussboy wrote: post #8
kaczordon wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s more interesting is that 0/6 of the miners who had natural immunity were re-infected. That points to natural immunity preventing spread. The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit. Vaccine mandates or checking for vaccination status are pointless because of this.

That is an incredible leap.

Nope, globally we know that re-infection rarely occurs after being infected. This study shows a 60% attack rate for fully vaccinated miners, which is horrendous. The whole point of this study is that vaccination does not stop transmission of the virus. To quote the study:

In conclusion, we describe a VOC Gamma COVID-19 outbreak with a strikingly high attack rate among persons fully vaccinated with BNT162b2 vaccine.[…]Masking and social distancing —even among those fully vaccinated— may be necessary.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#15

Post by version_five »

lugged wrote: post #9
version_five wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Severe Illness: Individuals who have SpO2 30 breaths/min, or lung infiltrates >50%. Isn't the point that levels below severe are not generally fatal and don't require hospitalization. Nobody thinks it's good to get sick, but it generally ceases to be a threat to public health with vaccination.

Sure if you don't think permanent social distancing and mask wearing is not a problem. The severity of mild covid is still potentially long lasting and I'm willing to guess elderly aren't going to handle it well. Letting covid become endemic could reduce our life expecty considerably.

> Sure if you don't think permanent social distancing and mask wearing is not a problem.

I'm confused by this comment. I do think they are a problem, that's why I am encouraged by a vaccine that reduces covid to something that is not life threatening and that we can stop freaking out about.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#16

Post by gibba999 »

inter_netuser wrote: post #12
gibba999 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The million dollar questions include: - Long COVID post-vaccine. >10% of people have brain damage visible on MRIs, including mild cases. - Future mutations. People have been overly optimistic for 15 months now, and believed bad things couldn't happen. They do. There's no reason to believe Delta or Gamma are the end, or anywhere close.

brain damage after vaccine, or "mild" disease in vaccinated people? can you point to that MRI imaging? curious to see.

This is the major one:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v...

This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases.

There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid-1... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8066611/

If you Google, you'll find dozens of other small-scale studies.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#17

Post by Ostrogodsky »

dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

I suppose those miners are strong healthy men, wouldnt we expect the same results if they were exposed to the virus while being not-vaccinated?

> In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

I dont think this particular case is a proof of your claim at all.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#18

Post by standapart »

The main takeaway here, mentioned above, is that this might throw shade on the "public good" idea of vaccination-- that you should still vaccinate those at minimal risk from Covid.

If you're at high risk, you should definitely still get vaccinated. Maybe just stop telling twenty-somethings they should get vaccinated too.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#19

Post by endisneigh »

standapart wrote: post #18

The main takeaway here, mentioned above, is that this might throw shade on the "public good" idea of vaccination-- that you should still vaccinate those at minimal risk from Covid. If you're at high risk, you should definitely still get vaccinated. Maybe just stop telling twenty-somethings they should get vaccinated too.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. Even if vaccinated people could get COVID (which they can) and could get sick (which they currently do, to some extent) - the question is ultimately whether or not vaccinated people die at the same rate. As long as Rate of Death for Vaccinated < Rate of Death for Unvaccinated + Rate of Death for taking Vaccine; you should be vaccinated, regardless of age.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#20

Post by selimthegrim »

kaczordon wrote: post #6
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

What’s more interesting is that 0/6 of the miners who had natural immunity were re-infected. That points to natural immunity preventing spread. The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit. Vaccine mandates or checking for vaccination status are pointless because of this.

The variants are probably from mutations in unvaccinated, immunocompromised folks. Edit: see https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/11/immunocompr...
Post reply on HN