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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#61

Post by xpe »

kaczordon wrote: post #6
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

What’s more interesting is that 0/6 of the miners who had natural immunity were re-infected. That points to natural immunity preventing spread. The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit. Vaccine mandates or checking for vaccination status are pointless because of this.

> The fact that vaccinated individuals don’t stop transmission means that there is no “public good” from getting vaccinated, it’s solely for personal benefit.

This is not true. Where did you hear this? What is your source?

See: "Covid-19: One dose of vaccine cuts risk of passing on infection by as much as 50%, research shows" https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1112

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#62

Post by xpe »

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #57

If someone can check my math, this seems like a perfect opportunity to do a statistical test. Sample sizes are too small to say that there is a difference between previous infection and no previous infection. Given the contingency table: No prior inf. Prior inf. Infected 3 0 Uninfect 4 6 A Fisher Exact Test yields a p value of 0.1923. So there is not evidence that previously infected people are safe. Similarly, if we…

Would you please label the rows and columns your table? This will help others check your work.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#64

Post by wesleywt »

gibba999 wrote: post #16
inter_netuser wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

brain damage after vaccine, or "mild" disease in vaccinated people? can you point to that MRI imaging? curious to see.

This is the major one: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.11.21258690v... This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. There are a lot of supporting smaller-scale studies too, replicating the same general result. E.g. https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/covid…

The article says nothing about vaccinated people.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#65

Post by spfzero »

throwawayboise wrote: post #24
Ostrogodsky wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point? You are not comparing against the general population to see if there is a difference. Also from the study: > Such a low vaccine efficiency against infection by the Gamma variant was not expected because in vitro studies have shown a similar reduction of neutralization for Beta or Gamma variants by BNT162b2-elicited antibodies (5) and a conserved CD4+ T-cell response against spike proteins from the…

It was in response to "I suppose those miners are strong healthy men" They were not. They were obese and hypertensive. That is unhealty no matter what vaccines you take.

Also the median age seemed pretty high for miners in a country with lots more young people than old.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#66

Post by wesleywt »

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #17
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

I suppose those miners are strong healthy men, wouldnt we expect the same results if they were exposed to the virus while being not-vaccinated? > In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission. I dont think this particular case is a proof of…

Miners are not healthy or young.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#67

Post by spfzero »

throwawayboise wrote: post #46
YZF wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no hard rules here. The UK variant is supposedly both more severe and more infectious ( https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n579 ). The common wisdom there is that something that kills you faster has less chance to transmit but there's nothing precluding something that kills you slowly and is very infectious while it does that.

Yes, Ebola is quite contageous but kills so fast it tends to burn out and not spread. AIDS kills you slowly and is infectious while it does that, so it spreads widely.

Both are blood-to-blood, rather than respiratory. They are not at all contagious, compared to flus and colds. A lot more deadly, but they can be stopped much more easily.

Ebola spread is not stopped so much by it’s deadliness, but by the fact that you can’t get it by just being near someone who has it and is breathing.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#68

Post by bigcorp-slave »

xpe wrote: post #62
bigcorp-slave wrote: post #57

If someone can check my math, this seems like a perfect opportunity to do a statistical test. Sample sizes are too small to say that there is a difference between previous infection and no previous infection. Given the contingency table: No prior inf. Prior inf. Infected 3 0 Uninfect 4 6 A Fisher Exact Test yields a p value of 0.1923. So there is not evidence that previously infected people are safe. Similarly, if we…

Would you please label the rows and columns your table? This will help others check your work.

Done, thanks.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#69

Post by standapart »

endisneigh wrote: post #19
standapart wrote: post #18

The main takeaway here, mentioned above, is that this might throw shade on the "public good" idea of vaccination-- that you should still vaccinate those at minimal risk from Covid. If you're at high risk, you should definitely still get vaccinated. Maybe just stop telling twenty-somethings they should get vaccinated too.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. Even if vaccinated people could get COVID (which they can) and could get sick (which they currently do, to some extent) - the question is ultimately whether or not vaccinated people die at the same rate. As long as Rate of Death for Vaccinated < Rate of Death for Unvaccinated + Rate of Death for taking Vaccine; you should be vaccinated, regardless of age.

I'm not sure how you came to this decision rule. There are plenty of things which strictly decrease my mortality rate, by some non-zero amount, which I do not do and are not recommended for me.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#70

Post by Zpalmtree »

endisneigh wrote: post #19
standapart wrote: post #18

The main takeaway here, mentioned above, is that this might throw shade on the "public good" idea of vaccination-- that you should still vaccinate those at minimal risk from Covid. If you're at high risk, you should definitely still get vaccinated. Maybe just stop telling twenty-somethings they should get vaccinated too.

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. Even if vaccinated people could get COVID (which they can) and could get sick (which they currently do, to some extent) - the question is ultimately whether or not vaccinated people die at the same rate. As long as Rate of Death for Vaccinated < Rate of Death for Unvaccinated + Rate of Death for taking Vaccine; you should be vaccinated, regardless of age.

But his point was on that of getting vaccinated as a "public good" - not on the vaccinations impact on your personal risk from covid. Excluding your personal risk, getting the vaccine does not prevent you spreading covid. Probably, it reduces your spread, as you have less symptoms, though.
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