Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons • Hacker News Board

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#221

Post by swalsh » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:48 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #202

swalsh wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our feeds are already heavily curated. I recently subscribed to the WSJ, and got paper delivery of the weekend editionfor free. At first, I clicked the option because I use a charcoal grill and I'm paperless to the point I struggled to find material to start it with. But it seemed like a waste to not read it. Once I started though, I quickly started to really enjoy the experience of reading a paper news paper. Aside…

> Life is duller when its completely curated. A newspaper is the very definition of “completely curated”. There are entire, multiple positions devoted to the physical prioritization, and design and layout of content, including the precise wording of headlines that fit the space and gel with the surrounding context. It’s why imho a newspaper is very much worth reading, because its production is so much less cost effic…

It is true, a newspaper is curated. But it's not curated to me. My entire digital life is curated to me, so being able to dip my foot into literally anything else is a new experience.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#222

Post by remram » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:49 PM UTC

rpastuszak wrote: post #92

tester34 wrote: post #55

upvote/downvote system is flawed allows to manipulate, promotes groupthink and kind of harassing people it maybe worked over decade ago or so, but it's definitely not state of art nowadays. edit. or maybe it just doesn't work for e.g news/discussions (especially about politics and other "hot" topics) meanwhile for meme sites it should be fine

I prefer upvotes/downvotes to likes, but there's an issue with "I downvote because I disagree" instead of "I downvote because the content is of poor quality". I also 100% agree that groupthink can be an issue, it's almost like the highlighted notes on kindle--I feel like once they reach a critical mass, people start highlighting the same text without really thinking about it. So, the ideal, for me is to allow for up/…

What about explicit options? Instead of a single downvote, have multiple options like "not relevant", "factually incorrect", "disrespectful", ...

This might 1) guide users towards not using those buttons for "disagree" (they are explicitly something else) 2) get richer signals for both evaluating content/accounts and the quality of reviews from specific voters

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#223

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:49 PM UTC

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #199

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”if you just want to talk about knitting, you can avoid the people talking about politics.” I don’t find this to be the case at all. The amount of politics tolerated in each subreddit is almost entirely dependent on the personalities of the mods who run it. And for whatever reason, most Reddit mods tend to be activist friendly or at least look the other way when it comes to obvious soapbox accounts breaking the rule…

To be fair to the Reddit moderation staff, they’re also paid $0.00, so being strict about keeping the sub on-topic may not be high up on their list of daily priorities.

Other way around. They're not paid, so they want to keep the amount of unrelated contentious bullshit on their subreddit to a minimum. I've been a default sub mod and I know how much of a firehose that is. The simplest solution, and the smallest amount of work in total, is to nip unrelated discussions in the bud, delete entire comment trees, and lock the comment section entirely on a post that is (or is looking to) go south.

Users quickly learn that "we don't do that here", and stop.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#224

Post by captainmuon » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:49 PM UTC

heurisko wrote: post #191

The problem is, is supposedly, upvote = adds to the conversation, downvote = detracts from conversation. In reality, upvote = I agree, downvote = I disagree. However I don't think anything can save twitter from being a toxic platform. What makes it especially toxic, I think, is its lack of separation of communities. Reddit is toxic sometimes, but at least there is some separation: if you just want to talk about knitt…

Up/downvotes always have multiple conflicting dimensions.

- The post is factually right / wrong - Confirms to the site rules / breaks the rules - I agree / disagree - I want to promote / bury this post - Reward poster with XP / punish

I am usually very pragmatic and upvote a post when I want other people to read it (because I want to see the discussion, or because I want to spread the idea). I also upvote to reward the poster.

I don't tend to downvote factually wrong posts when they are still interesting, because that limits the chance they get good discussion, and because I don't want to punish somebody for Being Wrong On The Internet. I do downvote positions that I find bad in order to reduce their reach.

It would be probably possible to have a site that implements two dimensions as a cross (maybe only for users with a certain XP) although the UX might not be to great. Maybe it is a good idea to have "promote/bury" and "reward" buttons?

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#225

Post by xwdv » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:50 PM UTC

heurisko wrote: post #191

The problem is, is supposedly, upvote = adds to the conversation, downvote = detracts from conversation. In reality, upvote = I agree, downvote = I disagree. However I don't think anything can save twitter from being a toxic platform. What makes it especially toxic, I think, is its lack of separation of communities. Reddit is toxic sometimes, but at least there is some separation: if you just want to talk about knitt…

> I think it's important to be able to have controversial debates in real life, as body language and audience response seems to keep people from being truly awful.

This isn't really why people are awful. The truth is people want something to say, but most of the time their actual opinions are kind of boring and mainstream. So they end up roleplaying as individuals who have some heinous opinion, and revel in the attention they receive.

Some people are awful in different ways, by supporting someone who is regarded as terrible for instance. Eventually, little cliques form, and toxicity brews.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#226

Post by badRNG » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:51 PM UTC

ottomanbob wrote: post #8

This is a small step in a generally right direction. Should be celebrated!

To the people downvoting this comment:

I see you disagree with an upvote/downvote system, but use that same system to communicate that belief. Curious.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#227

Post by gruez » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:52 PM UTC

baq wrote: post #147

slashdot had this covered years ago. literally decades. 1. upvotes limited to +5. 2. votes categorized: funny, informative, insightful, etc. 3. number of votes limited per time frame and user karma. 4. meta-moderation: your votes (up/down both) were subject to voting (correct/incorrect). good score == more upvotes to spend. and yet, simple trumps good. i was very happy to see parts of this implemented in steam review…

>4. meta-moderation: your votes (up/down both) were subject to voting (correct/incorrect). good score == more upvotes to spend.

Doesn't this lead to a keynesian beauty contest situation where people are incentized to vote what they think other people would vote, rather than by their own honest assessment?

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#228

Post by 41209 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:53 PM UTC

Sergiu37 wrote: post #137

whalabi wrote: post #116

I've wondered why Twitter seems far more toxic than Reddit (certain now-banned subreddits excluded) and I believe the downvote is a powerful tool used to achieve this, along with Reddit's community-style moderation, even though that can border on toxic itself at times. I wrote about it here a little while back https://unlikekinds.com/article/trolls-and-consequences-what...

Reddit is not toxic if you agree with the majority views. If not it is probably the most toxic social media. So other views people leave and so reddit remains a bubble of like minded people that don't see their toxicity. You can just look at some popular subreddits like iata i am the asshole or idiotsincar or murdered by words, justiceserved to name a few and many other where people just laugh and are being toxic tow…

I learned this the hard way in my mid twenties. So many angry people, wasting their valuable time and energy.

In life you're the only judge, as long as you're not doing anything which hurts another person you can do whatever you want. Say you only want to live in a city with fresh chocolate almond croissants. This is not subject to Reddit approval. The opinions of others, particularly random people should have absolutely no bearing on your life. But if you're chasing fake Reddit status, you can quickly lose sight of this.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#229

Post by bopbeepboop » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:54 PM UTC

user3939382 wrote: post #50

chimpansteve wrote: post #19

This seems prone to trouble to me. Twitter is already very groupthink heavy, and I can only see this amplifying that problem. You see it in Reddit all the time - people don't actually read the comments, just upvote the upvoted ones and vice versa. I worry this will just make an already very narrow set of acceptable opinions even narrower.

> Twitter is already very groupthink Just like all social platforms including this one. Here on HN if you have a controversial opinion the site literally fades your comment away until it disappears.

If it’s controversial enough, they shadowban you on HN.

Re: Twitter tests Reddit-style upvote and downvote buttons

#230

Post by simion314 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 12:56 PM UTC

7ewis wrote: post #179

TheFreim wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Different subreddits will have different majorities with different views, no? Different subreddits do have different majority views, yes, but the largest subreddits all pretty much have the same ones.

I've been on Reddit for over 10 years now and have to agree. Generally all the larger subreddits are fairly left. There have been some hard right subs, but most of the larger ones are banned now. I find a lot of the mods of large subs are quite power hungry too, for example r/soccer. If someone breaks some news, linking good sources, correct post format etc. mods will regularly take the post down and repost it themse…

Avoid the large ones, I am not even referring at politics, any big movie,book,game subbreddit will be filled with garbage , better to find or create a subreddit with strict rules.

For politics, I have no advice , probably try real life