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A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

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Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#71

Post by Barrin92 »

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

I don't have a word for the phenomenon, but the problem reminds me of a quote by Wilfrid Sellars.

"The aim of philosophy, abstractly formulated, is to understand how things in the broadest possible sense of the term hang together in the broadest possible sense of the term"

call it maybe philosophy-lacking, or worldview-lacking, but understanding how things 'hang together' in broad terms is precisely what our 'intelligent' systems cannot do. Agents in the world have an integrated point of view, they're not assemblages of models, and there seems to be very little interest than to build anything but the latter.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#72

Post by abnry »

daenz wrote: post #6

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone makes the argument that this automated flagging is an indicator that chess's language is inadvertently racially charged. And think about the concept of "white goes first." All it takes is a few viral tweets, and suddenly the game of chess is in the crosshairs.

You would be interested in this, starring Magnus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPFI3-W8Fqo

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#73

Post by TroisM »

hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

> We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten syllable German word that expresses it perfectly?

"Fuck the world" is all I can think of in this context

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#74

Post by gorwell »

colordrops wrote: post #35
zeteo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is not only racist but also sexist. How come the king is the most important piece on the board but the queen is completely expendable?! And, for goodness sake, the game features actual white knights.

Can't tell if sarcasm.

Sometimes people can't tell with Titania McGrath, a masterclass in satire.

https://twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#76

Post by userbinator »

hyperhopper wrote: post #14
daenz wrote: post #6

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone makes the argument that this automated flagging is an indicator that chess's language is inadvertently racially charged. And think about the concept of "white goes first." All it takes is a few viral tweets, and suddenly the game of chess is in the crosshairs.

In my opinion, that might be a sign that the idea of drawing abstract connections between words and concepts, that are several layers of indirection apart, may be going too far. Yeah using language that upsets people is bad, but if you allow enough layers between words and concepts, _everything_ can be argued to be offensive for one reason or another. Or will be soon once something else becomes a hot button issue.

I remember many years ago when colour schemes/UI themes were still called "skins", and forum discussions about them often yielded amusing racist-if-taken-out-of-context sentences like "do you like white or black skin" and "I have dark skin, but I prefer the white skin." Not a single person was offended or outraged, everyone saw the racial associations but clearly understood the context and was more amused than anything else.

I'm of mixed opinion whether people were actually more intelligent or level-headed back then, or whether the current "ultra-PC/SJW-ism" trend actually started as a joke that got taken too far and adopted as truth by the gullible.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#77

Post by booleandilemma »

shp0ngle wrote: post #5

Well. The speech police started changing "blacklist" and "whitelist" in programming context, even when those had no racist history; maybe it's time to change it in chess. (After all, white always goes first, that is not very PC.) Rename "black" and "white" to "second player" and "first player".

How about just light and dark? A lot of chessboards don't have strictly black and white colored pieces anyway.

(For the record I think the whole thing is stupid)

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#78

Post by chessmiater »

daenz wrote: post #6

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone makes the argument that this automated flagging is an indicator that chess's language is inadvertently racially charged. And think about the concept of "white goes first." All it takes is a few viral tweets, and suddenly the game of chess is in the crosshairs.

Already done:

> In 2019, Magnus Carlsen and Anish Giri – who as of July were the number 1 and number 10 players in the world, respectively – promoted a #MoveforEquality campaign as a way of acknowledging social inequalities. In their game, black moved first and the line was, “We broke a rule in chess today, to change minds tomorrow.” It was billed as an anti-racist statement, but some took it as a suggestion to change the rules of chess to black having the first move.

https://theconversation.com/why-does-white-always-go-first-i...

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#79

Post by flippinburgers »

hyperhopper wrote: post #14
daenz wrote: post #6

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone makes the argument that this automated flagging is an indicator that chess's language is inadvertently racially charged. And think about the concept of "white goes first." All it takes is a few viral tweets, and suddenly the game of chess is in the crosshairs.

In my opinion, that might be a sign that the idea of drawing abstract connections between words and concepts, that are several layers of indirection apart, may be going too far. Yeah using language that upsets people is bad, but if you allow enough layers between words and concepts, _everything_ can be argued to be offensive for one reason or another. Or will be soon once something else becomes a hot button issue.

This was in my opinion already readily apparent the instant that whitelist/blacklist came under fire.

Re: A YouTube chat about chess got flagged for hate speech

#80

Post by cmehdy »

computerlab wrote: post #58
hirundo wrote: post #21

We need a word or phrase for this phenomenon, where we attempt to substitute human pattern recognition with algorithms that just aren't up to the job. Facebook moderation, Tesla Full Self Driving, the War Games movie, arrests for mistaken facial identification. It's becoming an increasingly dystopic force in our lives and will likely get much worse before getting even worse. So it needs a label. Maybe there's a ten s…

The concept of "so-so automation" [1] seems relevant: innovation that allows a business or organization to eliminate human employees, but doesn't result in overall productivity gains or cost savings for society that could then be redistributed to the laid-off employees. I think so-so automation often is used places where there's a lot of zero-sum conflict between workers and management, or where the work itself cause…

As a non-native English speaker I read "so-so automation" like "sus-automation" and found it oddly appropriate.
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